D&D 4th Edition Big, Strong, and Dumb - Page 2





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  1. #11
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    The Ogre is solidly described. There were just a couple points I wanted to add:

    Ogres were 18/00 in AD&D and ability score bonuses for STR were logarithmic in their progression. So while Hill giants might have been overpowering to any human at strength 19, they were babes in the hands of a Storm Giant. The jump from 18/00 to 19 was significant.

    Also, Ogres aren't trained warriors, that's why they use less complicated weapons. It also has to do with how much their craftsman are capable of creating.

    They are common monsters found everywhere, but underwater (IIRC). They are tribal, ill-tempered, "voracious", and prone to capture prey to serve as slaves, though more often for later meals. They love the taste of demihumans, especially halfling, dwarf, and elf.
    The hide of ogres varies from dull blackish-brown to dead yellow. Rare specimens are a sickly violet in color. Their warty bumps are often of different color - or at least darker than their hides. Hair is blackish-blue to dull green. Eyes are purple with white pupils. Teeth are black or orange, as are talons. Ogres wear any sort of skins or furs. They care for their arms and armor reasonably well. The lifespan of an ogre is not less than 90 years. [as human norm]
    The Ogre Mage is an Oni and D&D really deserves to have a capable mythology of the East. The traditional Ogre Magi really needs to be redone as the Oni IMO. The old MM says they are very rare, but "Not as rare elsewhere as they are in this part of the world" assuming a default medieval European D&D setting. The toybox doesn't have to remain so. This is one of the areas ripe for growth.
    Ogre magi have light blue, light green, or pale brown skins. Their hair is typically of an opposite and darker color (blue-green, green-blue), except that brown skinned ogre magi have dark yellow hair. Their nails are black and their teeth and tusks are very white. Horns are ivory colored. Their eyes are dark pupiled with white centers. Their apparel is typically colored in patterns familiar to their homeland [family prints?]
    Trolls and Ogres are related for me, I believe it was lightly insinuated in their entries. Overall, this was a solid entry. My only real disappointment is the lack of dismemberment rules means which trolls will be sorely different in combat, Hydra too.

    Trolls live just about everywhere, even underwater, but I do believe they originated from swamplands, so they probably are more prominent there. They feed on meat, have very acute senses including a superior ability to see in the dark, and, very importantly, they are absolutely fearless.

    Standard trolls can lose a body part and the body part keeps on trucking. Stick it back on and it bonds with other troll parts. Dismemberment won't stop a troll. You need fire or acid. If you don't destroy them, given enough time each piece will each grow a new troll.
    Troll hide is a nauseating moss green, mottled green and gray, or putrid gray. The writhing hair-like growth upon a troll's head is greenish black or iron gray. The eyes of a troll are dull black.
    Playing a game is a study. Storytelling is personal composition.

 

  • #12
    Quote Originally Posted by howandwhy99 View Post
    Trolls and Ogres are related for me
    Yes, in 1st Ed they shared a god: Vaprak the Destroyer, I hope they bring him back, which looks like they might, as they are bringing back a lot of the old school racial gods (Kurtulmak, Hruggek, etc), which I dig, love the 2nd Ed Monster Mythology.

  • #13
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    Besides the Strength issue (and I really think thats more of a carrying capacity issue than a hit/damage bonus/grapple problem), all three descriptions seem pretty bland.

    The ogre is "big, dumb lummox". With the slight information we are given, ogres come across as baby (or teenage) hill giants. The write-up doesn't really give us information in how ogres are different from giants. No real mention that, for example, ogres tend to make their homes in caves - whereas hill giants are capable of building their own stockades and buildings. Can ogres have shamans/clerics or are they only destined to have warriors?

    Trolls come across as mindless killing machines - like a shark that just quite won't die. I'd like to see a little more delving into how they fit into the "world" as more than a terrifying combat encounter. I'm betting, like sharks, that in the D&D world they create the same sort of fear and hesitation when you mention "don't go into the woods" as when you think of Jaws and say "don't go into the water".
    "If it has stats, we can kill it." - T.G. Jackson, intro to 3rd ed Hackmaster

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  • #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlantl View Post
    I think they need to do something.

    I rolled up a human fighter with a 20 strength. that's the same strength score as an AD&D frost giant.

    Perhaps a rethink of the ability bonuses would be in order.
    I thought 20 was a stone giant in AD&D? (point taken regardless just saying btw)
    I hope with strange eons even the edition war may die.

  • #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnehnois View Post
    It becomes more of an issue because unlike in AD&D, class grants you ability score bonuses and an 18 is not the top of what a human can reach at all. Humans being stronger than giants is not cool.
    Absolutely! Sorry I can't give you any XP ATM.
    Scrag 'em all and let the gods sort 'em out!

  • #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnehnois View Post
    It becomes more of an issue because unlike in AD&D, class grants you ability score bonuses and an 18 is not the top of what a human can reach at all. Humans being stronger than giants is not cool.
    That depends on the story. Hercules is stronger than giants.

    Maybe there should be a "mood" module. In "gritty" games, humans can go beyond 18. In "fantasy heroic" they can go up to 20. And in "Mythic fantasy" they can go up to 25 or whatever.

  • #17
    Quote Originally Posted by triqui View Post
    That depends on the story. Hercules is stronger than giants.
    Sure. In D&D terms, however, I would not describe Hercules as any of the following:
    *Human
    *1st level
    *Mortal
    *A typical 1st level human non-divine PC

    There are already mechanisms in place to handle demigods and other such things. Those mechanisms may need to be redesigned for 5e, but I don't think they're particularly relevant to the discussion at hand.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"

  • #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Iosue View Post
    I dunno. The only number that seems off to me is the average human deadlift. x5 might be a bit much, but x2 is maximum carrying capacity. x3 might work. That's still 300 lbs, but seems a bit more feasible, even if it's not reasonable.
    500lb isn't too much for maximum human deadlift. Actually, it's low for *maximum human*. Like *half* maximum human.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M13EBl_jF0]Benedikt Magnusson -1015 Deadlift - Ronnie Coleman Classic - RAW - YouTube[/ame]


    300lb is close tor what a strong human could press overhead.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZc6J89b1-E]Mariusz Pudzianowski Shoulder Training - YouTube[/ame]

  • #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely_Dan View Post
    Yes, in 1st Ed they shared a god: Vaprak the Destroyer, I hope they bring him back, which looks like they might, as they are bringing back a lot of the old school racial gods (Kurtulmak, Hruggek, etc), which I dig, love the 2nd Ed Monster Mythology.
    ...Huh, I'd forgotten that. Much as I do like the old racial gods for the most part, this one strikes the wrong chord for me.

    I don't see ogres and trolls as having much in common at all. In fact, trolls really strike me as their own thing.

    I'd rather see ogres get tied in with some other race - most likely orcs, given the precedent of orogs. Ogres could be to orcs as bugbears are to goblins. (With orogs taking the place of hobgoblins - though of course the attitudes of the subraces are quite different!)

    Alternatively, ogres could be tied to the giantkin somehow.
    "All right, I am not the Shadow. You have nothing at all to worry about. Except, oh, wait, I'm pointing a gun at you."

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  • #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnehnois View Post
    Sure. In D&D terms, however, I would not describe Hercules as any of the following:
    *Human
    *1st level
    *Mortal
    *A typical 1st level human non-divine PC

    There are already mechanisms in place to handle demigods and other such things. Those mechanisms may need to be redesigned for 5e, but I don't think they're particularly relevant to the discussion at hand.
    But you said "what a human can reach". I agree that 1st level humans for regular, gritty style campaings (those starting like The Lord of The Ring power level) should have max 18 str. 20 should be restricted to high fantasy, where humans do huge feats of strength. Achiles, Jason, Sigfried, and Wulfgar, the friend of Drizzt Do Urden. Hercules should probably have mythic str, 25+

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