Revolution

Fast Learner · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
Your 72 pickup doesn't have a battery? What runs your starter motor, hamsters?

You can push-start a manual transmission diesel vehicle without any electricity. However, I can tell you from experience that it behooves you to make sure you always park on a hill, pointed downward.

However, finding any real quantities of non-degraded diesel fuel 15 years after a civilization collapse that happened today would be effectively impossible. I've read, anyway, that in the last decade refining both gasoline and diesel fuel has changed from the way it was mostly done for the previous 50 years or so, such that they get more fuel from a given quantity of oil but, as a side effect, fuel stability has decreased from as much as 10 or so years down to a mere 3-6 months. Degradation sets in very quickly; there's no way it'd be any good at all 15 years later.

Umbran · Sep 25, 2012

slobster said:
All you need to to is accelerate a subcritical mass into another subcritical mass, so that the result is a critical mass.

Yes, I am aware.

A cannon would do, and they were making cannons long before we had modern welding. Again, not a nuclear engineer, just going off what I've learned.

I don't expect a classic cannon would do well. Classic, "olde tyme" cannons work on gunpowder, which is not a high explosive. It is not enough just to put the two halves together - you could use simple gravity for that, and what you'd get is a short fission reaction that heats up the mass until it melts and breaks into sub-critical parts. Heat, a burst of radiation, but no boom.

If you don't mash the two masses together hard enough, and contain them, you don't get an explosion at all. Do it weakly, and your yield is low to non-existent.

And yes, they were making cannons before modern welding, sure - using knowledge and techniques built up over centuries, that we don't use now! Casting a cannon is *not* easy, and people who know how do it today are not just lying around.

Folks seem to think that if it was done in the past, it can be done immediately in the future. I think you underestimate how much re-invention of the wheel would have to take place. They won't be able to look up "how to make a cannon" on wikipedia you know.

Really?

What, is a Princess Bride quote somehow out of place to note, "we disagree on whether it would be easy"? Sorry. Just trying to inject a little humor.

slobster · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
What, is a Princess Bride quote somehow out of place to note, "we disagree on whether it would be easy"? Sorry. Just trying to inject a little humor.

Lol, quote recognition fail. And on such a classic. :blush:

Since I've exhausted my expertise on nuclear weapons engineering, I think that I'll let your last word on our gunpowder cannon nuke stand.

I still think that America after the fall would be lousy with guns, especially in inner cities and the rural middle of the country. But hey, maybe we'll meet the resistance soon, with their six-shooters and Winchester reproductions, packing ammo that they cast by hand out of scrap metal in the bunker of a survivalist, who everyone used to make fun of because he prepped for the apocalypse.

Umbran · Sep 25, 2012

JRRNeiklot said:
It has a battery. But it isn't required to start it. It's only necessary for lights and the radio. You can jump off any non automatic vehicle, at least older models.

Let us consider that - you're now talking about taking a car that is already old, and running it for even longer, without easily available new parts or trained mechanics, and making them last yet another 15 years in use.

I am sure that folks would use cars as long as possible. But your '72 pickup already qualifies as a "classic" car, and would be considered an antique by the time we got to the story at hand. It would be much like having a 1957 car on the road today. There are some, sure. But they aren't common. If they were even harder to maintain, they'd be even less common.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 25, 2012

Another problem with the Cannon-Fission plan: assuming you actually do have enough power to force the sub-critical masses together (perhaps using extra thick walled cannons and some TNT?) you still have the problem of blast radius.

Even if you had extra long fuses, it is likely that anyone actually using the Cannon-Fission bomb would be destroyed by it. A gunpowder age "Ultimate Nullifier", if you will.

El Mahdi · Sep 25, 2012

I don't know the exact limitations that the show has placed on electricity. Such as, can a manually turned generator produce electricity?

If No, then push starting won't work either for a regular gasoline engine.

And the deisel will only work above a certain temperature, as there is no battery power for the glow plug.

And that is, as mentioned before, if one can even find or refine an usable amount of fuel.

Felon · Sep 26, 2012

Deset Gled said:
My nitpicking is because of how the show has been presented to me. I don't know what the creators have stated about the show, but I can tell you that this thread is the first time I have seen the word "swashbuckling" associated with Revolution.

Here you go:

Revolution Director Jon Favreau Talks About the Show's Escapist Approach, Sword Fights and More - IGN

Umbran · Sep 26, 2012

Dannyalcatraz said:
Even if you had extra long fuses, it is likely that anyone actually using the Cannon-Fission bomb would be destroyed by it. A gunpowder age "Ultimate Nullifier", if you will.

Oh, I figure if you have someone who can assemble the thing, they can do a little extra chemistry work or otherwise devise a Rube Goldberg Device to set it off on a long delay. Or, find a suitable minion that is loyal enough to suit the plot to set it off for the BBEG.

El Mahdi said:
I don't know the exact limitations that the show has placed on electricity. Such as, can a manually turned generator produce electricity?

If No, then push starting won't work either for a regular gasoline engine.

Good point. There's still the spark plugs. How did I forget the spark plugs? Duh.

Now, here's the real kicker - will they ever have a lightning storm in the show?

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 26, 2012

OTOH, I would love to have seen the return of steam power. It would have been coolness itself if the evil captain had rolled into town in a steam-powered black Escalade. Or at least, an Escalade chassis/body, stripped down a bit...

Elodan · Sep 26, 2012

Dannyalcatraz said:
OTOH, I would love to have seen the return of steam power. It would have been coolness itself if the evil captain had rolled into town in a steam-powered black Escalade. Or at least, an Escalade chassis/body, stripped down a bit...

Nothing better than rolling into town in steam-powered style like this: