More Than Just a Shaggy Ogre

ComradeGnull · Sep 12, 2012

Balesir said:
Hmm, I've said it before for DDN monsters, and on reflection it applies here - the background given does seem too prescriptive. Minotaurs as a transformed thing I still see as a good idea; it fits well for the original "core concept". But the stuff about Baphomet and tying it to a specific background element is unhelpful. Leaving it more undefined would help- the 'true' cause of the transformation should be mysterious, suspected to be a divine curse, but no-one really knows. And maybe a ritual can "catalyse" it. That would leave far more space for GMs to set up world-situations that would be fun to explore.

I think that's a decent balanced approach- something that suggests ideas, but doesn't set in stone one conception of how a creature functions in the game world. For example, in the Minotaur description you could say: 'Legend tells of minotaurs born of a union between man and bull, and of bestial men transformed into minotaurs through the worship of dark gods. In some lands, sages speak of whole societies of minotaurs who live and work like men, building cities and sailing ships. In other lands, minotaurs are fearsome, lone aberrations created by magic to guard subterranean mazes and hidden treasure.'

Touch on several options, mention the mythical origins, mention the possibility of entire races, but don't tie a DM down to a specific conception of a creature in the flavor text. It's easy to say 'anyone can ignore the flavor text and make their own'- much better to actively encourage creative thinking and include a few reminders that you are meant to make the game 'yours'.

Kobold Avenger · Sep 12, 2012

I tend to prefer Minotaurs as a people and I'm not all that big on Dragonlance, and don't play WOW at all. I'm fine with Minotaurs PCs, though I'm not really big in having them as a major PC race either. But I do think it's always a good test of a system to see how well they can do monstrous races. Minotaur is certainly beyond having Orc, Goblin and Lizardfolk PCs, but less potentially challenging than possible Ogre PCs.

The blessed/cursed/transformed cultist concept, while it might explain things in the game world better, I feel it's too limiting. They should go with something like the multiple-choice origin approach of Half-Orcs in 4e for Minotaurs since there's at least 3 major types of origins for them.

Stalker0 · Sep 12, 2012

I'm a fan of the flavor here, because it helps explains the wide range of commonality I might see for a monster in the game.

If I'm going with the Greek Style, aka THE MINOTAUR, then this explanation can work. Its basically the head priest of the god or something of that nature. But it explains why there is only one in the whole world.

But if I want them more prolific, then cults of guys that turn into minotaurs works...perhaps eventually they do start breeding with each other.

I think a similar treatment could work with the medusa as well.

Steely_Dan · Sep 12, 2012

Kamikaze Midget said:
Recognize that not all cow-people need to be minotaurs, promote the use of other names (Kothian, Yikaira)

Not Yikaria, those are Yak Men (yaks are not bulls), and are a completely different type of monster (also, campaign specific).

It's like calling a pegasus a unicorn.

I'm A Banana · Sep 12, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
Not Yikaria, those are Yak Men (yaks are not bulls), and are a completely different type of monster (also, campaign specific).

It's like calling a pegasus a unicorn.

Yeah, I agree. There's a thread in the WotC posts about minotaurs that imply that they think that yikaria are the same thing as minotaurs are the same thing as Dragonlance minotaurs...

Steely_Dan · Sep 12, 2012

Kamikaze Midget said:
Yeah, I agree. There's a thread in the WotC posts about minotaurs that imply that they think that yikaria are the same thing as minotaurs are the same thing as Dragonlance minotaurs...

Yes, that made me lose faith...

Minotaur at this point in "D&D's" history encompasses many things, tying it to a Demon Lord will not work for certain campaign settings; like say, they don't have demons, let alone "Lords" of them.

I still dig it, though.

...not the taking an iconic Al-Qadim monster's name, though.

I hope they bring back genies, proper, not the half-ass attempt they did in 4th Ed (no offence, love what they did with cyclops).

As for Dragonlance minotaurs, so cool; Kaz; Taladas (the Greco-Roman take on them).

Stormonu · Sep 12, 2012

Hmm... for my own campaign, I'd long ago gone with minotaurs having been humans with a strong mercenary streak who'd befallen the same curse their war-like god had been cursed with.

For standard D&D, this would have gone with Jame's transformation story via Baphomet, but it wold have happened a long time back and the race "bred true" since that event. This would be awfully similar to the 4E tiefling backstory, but then I'm not entirely happy with the 4E depiction of tieflings anyway (and I want my tieflings to stand out from Cambions, not be watered down versions).

Steely_Dan · Sep 12, 2012

Stormonu said:
(and I want my tieflings to stand out from Cambions, not be watered down versions).

And the Alu-Demon; see, these things mean something.

I'm A Banana · Sep 12, 2012

Ultimately, I think they need to realize that there's different "minotaurs," and that different minotaurs require different stories and different treatments in the rules.

One size will not fit all. That's true with monsters as schizophrenic as the minotaur, and it's true for other monsters as well. It's not true for EVERY monster, but each version of the minotaur is really fairly mutually exclusive.

Steely_Dan · Sep 13, 2012

Kamikaze Midget said:
Ultimately, I think they need to realize that there's different "minotaurs," and that different minotaurs require different stories and different treatments in the rules.

One size will not fit all. That's true with monsters as schizophrenic as the minotaur, and it's true for other monsters as well. It's not true for EVERY monster, but each version of the minotaur is really fairly mutually exclusive.

Of course, we don't need 5 different Ropers, each with a rich backstory/history.

More Than Just a Shaggy Ogre

ComradeGnull

First Post

Kobold Avenger

Legend

Stalker0

Legend

Steely_Dan

First Post

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich

Steely_Dan

First Post

Stormonu

Legend

Steely_Dan

First Post

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich

Steely_Dan

First Post

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