Action Points

Toyon · Sep 14, 2012

This is my first time posting, but I have been trolling on this site for some time. Thank you everyone for all the great advice and information that you post here!

My question has to do with the timing of action points. In our last session, our bard wanted to use his action point in the middle of his turn, so that he could maximize one of his effects. My opinion, as a player, was that an action point can only be used at the end of a turn, and the DM agreed.

Afterwards, the bard says he has looked at the PH and cannot find any specific rule that says the action point is used at the end of the turn. In other words (DM ruling notwithstanding), he thinks that an action point can be used at any point during the turn, it does not need to be used at the end of a turn.

Can anyone provide some clarification on this point? (apologies in advance if this has been covered in another thread)

S'mon · Sep 14, 2012

From Compendium:

Action Points
Action points allow creatures to take more actions than normal. Adventurers each start with 1 action point, and some monsters have action points, as noted in their stat blocks. Typically an adventurer spends an action point to pull off an extra attack, to move farther than normal, to take the second wind action in the same turn that he or she attacks, and so on.

Spend an Action Point
Action: Free action. A creature must have an action point in order to take this action. Also, the creature can take this action only during its turn, and never during a surprise round....

...Once per Encounter or Round: An adventurer can spend an action point only once per encounter. In contrast, a monster that has action points can spend more than 1 action point during an encounter, but only 1 per round.

There is no "end of turn" limit. You can spend it at any time during your own turn (but not in a surprise round).

d2OKC · Sep 14, 2012

S'mon is spot on.

The action point is one of the best things to come out of Eberron (and there are a lot of good things that came out of Eberron!), and really adds a lot to help players make their choices (and, sometimes to help make their choices more difficult). Being able to use an action point at any time during a round is pretty awesome, because it gives the player - or DM - a lot of leeway in how they can use their powers.

Often times I'll use my action point first in the round, just as a way to show how desperate my character is to use this particular action. Especially when you have feats like Action Surge, that give extras with the action point, it adds a lot of RP possibility into combat.

I played a Shaman all the way through heroic tier, and he was notorious for saving up his action points for just the right moment, which often meant he never used them at all. So, when he eventually pulled them out against a large boss or against a creature he had a particular dislike for, the other players knew it was a big deal.

All that to say, yes. S'mon is correct. The action point can be used at any point in a player's turn.

radja · Sep 14, 2012

there are some advantages to spending an action point in the middle of your turn. This is also why there are different wordings for the bonuses granted by an action point.

lvl 11 battle mage paragon class feature 'battle mage action':
when you spend and action point to take an extra action, you also gain a +4 bonus to attack rolls until the start of your next turn.

the feat 'action surge':
You gain a +3 bonus to attack rolls you make during any action you gained by spending an action point.

the bard was right. you can spend an action point at the start of your turn, at the end or any other time during your turn. Also: the extra action need not be your last action, or the last standard action.
a human wizard might first move, then use an action point for an extra action to cast 'sleep' (with a +3 bonus to hit for his action surge feat), then take his normal standard action to cast stinking cloud.

the Jester · Sep 14, 2012

Once you are paragon level, it is actually often a good idea to spend your action point first in the round in which you spend it.

A lot of paragon paths give action point features that do [x] until the end of your turn.

If [x] is some kind of bonus to attacks you make until the end of your turn(for instance), it applies to both your normal standard action attack and to your action point action. (Plus any minor or move action attacks you might be able to pull off.)

Likewise, if you get bonuses to defenses by spending an action point, spending it before you move and attack (and attack again) can help you avoid OAs.

TLDR Version: You can spend an AP any time on your turn, and it's often wise to do so early.

Toyon · Sep 14, 2012

Thanks everyone for the response. Our bard will be glad to know!

Steely_Dan · Sep 16, 2012

I hope Action Points don't make a comeback, or Milestones.

Might as well build in that the characters can take 2 standard actions once an Encounter.

I also hope they ditch "Encounter".

underfoot007ct · Sep 16, 2012

Toyon said:
This is my first time posting, but I have been trolling on this site for some time. Thank you everyone for all the great advice and information that you post here!

Do you mean, you have been 'lurking' rather than trolling ?

Dragonblade · Sep 16, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
I hope Action Points don't make a comeback, or Milestones.

Might as well build in that the characters can take 2 standard actions once an Encounter.

I also hope they ditch "Encounter".

Milestones, agreed. But I like 4e action points. I did not care for the prior Eberron incarnation of them. Personally, though, you should just get one every encounter. That's how I house rule it my game.