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Friday, 14th September, 2012, 07:42 PM #11
Hydra (Lvl 25)
All this, of course, alters the weight and shapes of the sides, and thus the probabilities. If you are really and truly concerned with the randomness, you don't go adding unknown weights to them.
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Friday, 14th September, 2012, 07:59 PM #12
Defender (Lvl 8)
Not sure on the accuracy of the vid but quite interesting in regards to Game Science dice.
Game Science Part 1 of 2 - YouTube
A friend bought me a set of GS dice several years ago and I have to say that I found them horrid to roll. They were not as random as the regular dice that I have.
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Friday, 14th September, 2012, 10:17 PM #13
Hydra (Lvl 25)
Well, the guy in the video is trying to sell you something. He may be 100% accurate, but he's got motive for bias. A skeptical reader might not that it would have been super-easy for him to specifically choose the dice in those stacks for his demonstration...
If you're really worried, find or write yourself a chi-squared tester.
A couple of articles for practicals for gamers:
And, one tester that does the math for you.
Chi-square calculator for dice
I cannot vouch for the code behind the tester above, of course.
Note that in order to test, you have to roll a lot. In the tester I link there, I tested a 10-sider, just for the heck of it. In 50 rolls, not a single 9 or 10. But, in that few rolls, that's still not evidence for real bias.
Last edited by Umbran; Friday, 14th September, 2012 at 10:25 PM.
Friday, 14th September, 2012, 10:48 PM #14
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Dunno, think I will stick with my golden Dwarven Stones. I like the weight of 'em.
These look nice, but I'm not sure I am seeing what makes them different from standard dice...?
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"Raven dark but beautiful, in a malevolent sort of way;
With eyes that speak of wonders on the other side of Day.
She dances in the shadows where others fear to tread;
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Friday, 14th September, 2012, 11:26 PM #15
Lama (Lvl 13)
Yes, Gamescience dice produce a more even and accurate distribution of results. Yes, the sprue joint is going to affect the roll, but it's going to be to such an insignificant degree it's laughable anywhere outside a casino. Even Gamescience dice are an order of magnitude less accurate than casino dice. Casino dice are not injection molded, they are machined from material that allows tolerances that for any RPG gamer would be INSANE. RPG dice, even from Gamescience, deform unpredictably just by cooling after being injected into the molds. Dice from other manufacturers are tumbled to remove the edges, evidence of the sprue, and to give them a polish which Gamescience dice don't have. That does, however, produce measurable inaccuracy in their results when rolled.
The value of the accuracy of Gamescience dice is, to my thinking, QUITE overrated for normal RPG purposes. As was said, Lou Zocchi is selling you something. If it's REALLY going to matter to you if you roll a 13 with a 1% greater frequency than you do a 4, then Gamescience dice are for you (and that 1% variance is probably quite overstated except in the worst of cases). If you accept (IMO sensibly) that any such inaccuracy is going to be UTTERLY lost in the noise of general purpose gaming; whose outcome does NOT mean loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue as it would be at a casino; I say go ahead and buy the dice that actually come in niftier assortments of color.
Really, I think it'd be cool to HAVE a set of casino-standard machined gaming dice. I'd pay money for that. But if you have more than a casual and amused sort of concern about the impact of inaccurate dice on the outcome of a D&D game you may need to reassess your lifes priorities.
But of course, ultimately, you should spend your RPG money on what makes you happy or enhances YOUR enjoyment of the game. I'm just sayin' - don't go drinking the koolaid.
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Saturday, 15th September, 2012, 12:10 AM #16
Time Agent (Lvl 24)
Hell- they're going to abrade with time anyway...each roll, each heavy bump you take while carrying them in your bag will change their randomness over time.
I wonder how durable Lou's dice are?
Saturday, 15th September, 2012, 12:19 AM #17
Saturday, 15th September, 2012, 12:33 AM #18
Hydra (Lvl 25)
My rounded-edged dice *never* chip. Ever. So, they are very durable.
The question is not whether GS dice are more durable than other sharp-edged dice, but how long does it take a Gamescience die to wear to the point where it also starts showing similar signs of bias as the tumbled dice.
Last edited by Umbran; Saturday, 15th September, 2012 at 12:37 AM.
Saturday, 15th September, 2012, 12:39 AM #19
Time Agent (Lvl 24)
Saturday, 15th September, 2012, 12:43 AM #20
Grandfather of Assassins (Lvl 19)
However, having bought his dice, I feel they're overrated. The sharp edges make them annoying to hold, the barely inked numbers make them hard to read and I actually prefer the idea that my dice are slightly slanted in my favor - I love my "killer d20", for example.
And sometimes blaming the dice for a terrible run of luck is a good way to destress.
"If it has stats, we can kill it." - T.G. Jackson, intro to 3rd ed Hackmaster