D&D 4th Edition "Enter the Crucible" L10 Endurance Utility - Resist 10 all for Encounter




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  1. #1
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    Ignore Istar

    "Enter the Crucible" L10 Endurance Utility - Resist 10 all for Encounter

    Does this Utility ruin the game, end of story.
    What party wont have everyone make sure they have Endurance and take up 10 Resistance to all damage for an entire fight.
    Usually the big ones of course.

    Too broken ??

 

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    It is good, but it is a daily, and it costs a surge.

    I would say it is pretty strong.

    Gamebreaking? Not really.

  • #3
    I agree with Dice4Hire. It's not really game-breaking.

    It's not a given that everyone will select it, given that many have excellent choices for a level 10 utility power (the warlock has an at-will teleport), and that many are not trained in Endurance. Further, feats are one of the rarest of character-building resources in most games, and many characters may not have one to spare to take an extra skill power. I will say this: it is a perfect power for a defender that doesn't have any other resist (many will). Other roles should probably invest in something else.

    Resist 10 does not break an encounter. By mid-paragon, there should be quite a few encounters in which a character will have resist 10 to a frequently used damage type. Devas (resist necrotic and radiant) and tieflings (resist fire) come to mind. And many items grant resistance to a form of damage. Same for monsters.

    It may make one encounter a day easier at early paragon. It may even "resolve" one or two encounters. But, after a few levels, it will have dramatically less impact.

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    Ignore (Psi)SeveredHead
    Quote Originally Posted by Istar View Post
    Does this Utility ruin the game, end of story.
    What party wont have everyone make sure they have Endurance and take up 10 Resistance to all damage for an entire fight.
    Usually the big ones of course.

    Too broken ??
    Yes, it's broken. 4e has too much bloat. If WotC published products at a more reasonable rate, we wouldn't see so many unbalanced powers. This is precisely why I limit what powers and so forth I allow into my game. I wouldn't want to be surprised by having this power appear in a game and a player argue that it's "legal".

    This power nerfs minions, damage auras, ongoing damage (and the relatively low-damage attacks that go with them)... and Dispel Magic has been nerfed to the point that it would have no effect on this power on the grounds that ridiculous buffs weren't supposed to be in the game in the first place.

    What source is this from?
    If your D20 Modern PCs don't fear guns, use a bigger battlefield! Smaller battlefields are melee friendly. Cool battlefields in the Forest and Woodlands section of http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dungeonsunlimited/
    You cannot spend more power points on a psionic power than your manifester level. The metacap is there for balance reasons.
    XPH errata: You can only use a mindfeeder once per day.
    Random map generator by TogaMario: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.ph...24#post2379924
    D20 Modern/DnD/T20 NPC wiki: http://d20npcs.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page

  • #5
    That's a pretty dramatic condemnation. And you give the impression that you have not read the power.
    Quote Originally Posted by (Psi)SeveredHead View Post
    What source is this from?
    Enter the Crucible
    Minor Action Personal
    Requirement: You must have at least one healing surge remaining.
    Effect: You lose a healing surge. Until the end of the encounter, you cannot be weakened, and you gain resist 10 to all damage.

    Published in Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook, page(s) 71.

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    Ignore (Psi)SeveredHead
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferghis View Post
    That's a pretty dramatic condemnation. And you give the impression that you have not read the power.
    However, I've dealt with Moment of Glory, which is the same thing but less resist damage and could be broken by denying a minor action somehow (eg daze) rather than just being on for the whole encounter.

    I stand by my comment.
    If your D20 Modern PCs don't fear guns, use a bigger battlefield! Smaller battlefields are melee friendly. Cool battlefields in the Forest and Woodlands section of http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dungeonsunlimited/
    You cannot spend more power points on a psionic power than your manifester level. The metacap is there for balance reasons.
    XPH errata: You can only use a mindfeeder once per day.
    Random map generator by TogaMario: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.ph...24#post2379924
    D20 Modern/DnD/T20 NPC wiki: http://d20npcs.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Psi)SeveredHead View Post
    However, I've dealt with Moment of Glory, which is the same thing but less resist damage and could be broken by denying a minor action somehow (eg daze) rather than just being on for the whole encounter.

    I stand by my comment.
    I would regard it as broken for my game, and would not allow it, for the same reasons given by Psi; the same reasons why I don't allow Moment of Glory.

    Most of the GMs I know only allow limited sources, typically PHB I, PHB II, and Essentials; and Moment of Glory - which came out well before the MM3 monster damage upgrade - was a major factor in my losing trust in WoTC and limiting sources. It ruined a dragon fight, turning it into a slog that left a whole table bored.

    BTW the encounter-long Resist 5 of Moment of Glory would seem to be about right for a Paragon Tier power, since Paragon auras typically do 10+ dmg, at least IMC. MoG was a 1st level power, though. As Resist 5-all, Enter the Crucible would look about right to me given the prereq and cost.
    ***Henry/S'mon Super Quick d20 NPC Generation System*** The Gods of the Copybook Headings With Terror and Slaughter Return!

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  • #8
    Quote Originally Posted by (Psi)SeveredHead View Post
    This power nerfs minions, damage auras, ongoing damage (and the relatively low-damage attacks that go with them)...
    Quote Originally Posted by S'mon View Post
    I would regard it as broken for my game, and would not allow it, for the same reasons given by Psi; the same reasons why I don't allow Moment of Glory.
    Moment of Glory provides all characters with resistance. This power grants ONE character resistance as a daily power.

    For the sake of comparison, at level 11, thri-keen can gain resist 2 all with a feat while bloodied (from Dark Sun). Warding elemental, again available at level 11, give resistance 5 all, to all allies within 2 (again from Dark Sun). Shifters can gain resist 2 all while regenerating at level 11 (PHB2).

    I really don't think one character gaining resist 10 for one encounter a day will make the game unfun. But your mileage might vary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferghis View Post
    Moment of Glory provides all characters with resistance. This power grants ONE character resistance as a daily power.

    For the sake of comparison, at level 11, thri-keen can gain resist 2 all with a feat while bloodied (from Dark Sun). Warding elemental, again available at level 11, give resistance 5 all, to all allies within 2 (again from Dark Sun). Shifters can gain resist 2 all while regenerating at level 11 (PHB2).

    I really don't think one character gaining resist 10 for one encounter a day will make the game unfun. But your mileage might vary.
    I don't play Dark Sun; I wouldn't normally allow the Warding Elemental ability you describe above, but maybe in a DS game it works ok, especially if you don't use minions. I don't regard individual resist 2 abilities at level 11 as problematic at all. I would probably allow an individual Daily Resist 5-all at Paragon and an individual Daily Resist 10-all at Epic.

    Edit: I have 1-encounter days quite often.
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    eriktheguy, on S'mon's latest idea:
    There are 2 major problems with your idea:
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    2: see 1

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    Ignore (Psi)SeveredHead
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferghis View Post
    Moment of Glory provides all characters with resistance. This power grants ONE character resistance as a daily power.
    That's still enough to render that character incredibly tough (math-breakingly). At-will attacks are doing less than half damage typically (typically 18 at 10th-level, you're only taking 8), and it's worse if there's ongoing damage involved (since this is usually affecting two low damage rolls twice; flat ongoing 30-type attacks are incredibly rare, probably due to the saving throw system making that too swingy).

    Paragon auras typically deal 10 damage, which this completely blocks. A 10th-level minion is supposed to do 9 damage according to the guidelines, but they typically do a little more; still, blocking more than 75% of the damage that a minion does is more than a little problematic.

    Monsters that have retaliatory auto-damage (think the tiefling racial power or the paladin's varying punishment abilities) will see their special powers laughed off.

    Certain monsters use multiple weaker attacks rather than a single strong attack (the tembo is a good example, it can get four relatively weak attacks in a round not counting its aura).

    This power by itself would seriously limit what you can use in an encounter. No ongoing damage, no traps (since those are usually at-will only), no dangerous terrain that deals damage (drowning in silt is fine though, if you're aiming for the restraining condition and not drowning "damage"...), no tembos, no monsters that have a minor action and standard action that team up to equal standard damage, no paladin-type opponents...

    Or alternatively, it limits what sort of encounters DMs can use until that power is used. I don't want to save all my paladin-type monsters with auras and ongoing damage attacks until the final encounter of the day (if the day ends up that way), and it'll be worse if the PC saves that power until the end of the day.

    For the sake of comparison, at level 11, thri-keen can gain resist 2 all with a feat while bloodied (from Dark Sun).
    A paragon level knight can, with Armor of Conviction, get resistance while bloodied too. That's not on all the time (since you have to be bloodied), and it's only resist 5 all. By 16th-level, even minions are trivially cutting through that.

    Warding elemental, again available at level 11, give resistance 5 all, to all allies within 2 (again from Dark Sun).
    That actually seems too good, since an animist shaman can have that active all the time. However, cutting damage by 5 isn't going to completely nerf ongoing damage or minions.

    Shifters can gain resist 2 all while regenerating at level 11 (PHB2).
    IIRC, shifters can only regenerate once bloodied. I could be wrong, I don't have a shifter in my game (it's Dark Sun, there's no shifters there). I certainly hope that's the case, because uncapped regeneration is far worse than regeneration while bloodied for PC balance.

    I really don't think one character gaining resist 10 for one encounter a day will make the game unfun. But your mileage might vary.
    I'm comparing it in part to Bloodcut Armor, which gives you equivalent resistance ... for one round. Grindiness goes both ways. It's quite possible for a DM to design an unkillable/grindy monster (or use one, I hear bad things about insubstantial weakening wraiths) and it's generally frowned upon/avoided. That doesn't mean it's impossible for a player to do the same thing for a PC.

    You could also compare this to Stoneskin, which I'm noticing is basically the same thing but 6 levels higher. I don't know if I like that actually; at least that power should be taking up a sustain minor (sort of like how Fly and other such powerful effects allow for that). My campaign hasn't reached enough levels to worry about Stoneskin. (Also no wizard PCs, which is a bit disappointing actually.)
    Last edited by (Psi)SeveredHead; Saturday, 15th September, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
    If your D20 Modern PCs don't fear guns, use a bigger battlefield! Smaller battlefields are melee friendly. Cool battlefields in the Forest and Woodlands section of http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/dungeonsunlimited/
    You cannot spend more power points on a psionic power than your manifester level. The metacap is there for balance reasons.
    XPH errata: You can only use a mindfeeder once per day.
    Random map generator by TogaMario: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.ph...24#post2379924
    D20 Modern/DnD/T20 NPC wiki: http://d20npcs.wikicities.com/wiki/Main_Page

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