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Tuesday, 18th September, 2012, 10:28 AM #1
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Opinions please on these two player created magical items.
I'm starting a new Pathfinder campaign (starting at 5th Level) and one of the Player Characters has asked if he can create his own two magical items (using the rules for wealth beyond 1st Level - i.e. 10,500gp, and the magical item creation guidelines on page 550 of the Core Rulebook).
The two items he has provisionally proposed are:
1. Stablize Token.
Once per day, if the bearer drops below zero hit points, this item will cast the stabilize "cantrip" on him/her.
Cost: Spell Level 1/2 multiplied by Caster Level 1. Therefore 1/2 multiplied by 2000gp (for continuous item) = 1,000gp, then divided by 5 (for once per day use) = 200gp, then multiplied by 2 because it doesnt occupy a specific body slot, for a total price of 400gp.
I suspect that the player wants to make one of these for each member of the new adventuring company. 6 players (total cost 2400gp).
The second item has me in more of a quandary and I'm not sure if this is even viable.
2. Healing Stone.
Before I continue with this, I note that a 50 charge Wand of Cure Light Wounds costs 750gp to craft for a 5th Level Character.
Anyway, the player suggests:
Full round activation, heals 1 hit point with a command word. The player says that this item should cost 1800gp (CL1 x Spell Level 1 X Command Word) but I suspect he wants to be able to use this at will and the price would/should be more like 2000gp (CL1 x Spell Level 1 x Continuous).
The player comments that this item would be of "little use in combat but will allow healing at a slow rate". He also stresses that a wand would be cheaper to make and the advantage of this item is that it eliminates bookkeeping.
I appreciate that he could churn out wands of cure light wounds as required between adventures but my big problem with the healing stone is that, if allowed in game, the stones (for a relatively cheap 2000gp) allow for 1hp healed per round, which translates as 10hp per minute, 50hp per 5 minutes or 600 hps per hour!! Since the stone is only providing 1hp per use, it effectively gives the character the ability to effectively "insta-heal" each member of his entire party after each combat in an hour or less, probably much less.
I dont really like just saying no when players propose new items but I'm tempted to on this occasion as it looks like a recipe for trouble.
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Tuesday, 18th September, 2012, 12:40 PM #2
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
I don't see a problem with the first item. Basically, it helps prevent a character deaths, which are never fun. It will also become less useful as the party goes up in level. At higher levels, damage output increases and you tend to go straight from conscious to dead, completely bypassing the dying state.
The second item at least requires some thought, and depends on what sort of campaign you want to run. If you want a grim iand gritty campaign, I would not allow it. If you have a fun, light-hearted campaign, it seems reasonable. It takes away hit points/cure spells as a limited daily resource, which does mean that the party would have a bit more endurance and the healer will effectively have a few more spells per day.
An item with infinite charges often costs twice the same item with 50 charges. This is almost three times the cost of a cure light wounds wand, and much less effective.
After a rough battle at 10th level, it's not implausible to need to heal 200 points of damage in the party, which will certainly run out any minute per level spells and cut into the duration of the 10 minute per level spells. You can also occasionally negate it by forcing them to continue moving, either through time pressure or by having a slow but very powerful monster than they need to flee whenever it gets close.
Tuesday, 18th September, 2012, 02:06 PM #3
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
I would contrast the Healing Stone with the Ring of Regeneration, which also heals 1 hp per round. It can also restore lost limbs and stop bleed damage. How often do characters lose limbs" Stopping bleed damage is a bit more common.
It costs 45,000 gold [EDIT: I think that's the cost if the character crafts it, so 90,000 purchased!] AND occupies a slot on the body. Plus, only damage taken while wearing the ring will regenerate, so every member of the party needs one - they can't just hand it around to restore everyone between combats.
It seems like the healing is half or more of the benefit of the Ring of Regeneration, so allowing the same effect for 2,000 gp is a bargain price.
Last edited by N'raac; Wednesday, 19th September, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
Tuesday, 18th September, 2012, 02:32 PM #4
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
The math on the stabilize token is what I would do with it. It will take a bit of danger away from encounters, but also reduce the risk of random PC death. It's probably harmless.
I wouldn't allow the second one in my game, at least not at that cost. Compare it to the ring of regeneration. They're not directly comparable, but there's a reason that the ring costs 90,000 gp and occupies a slot.
I could see that costing anywhere from 45,000 to 180,000 gp. I'd lean towards 180,000. That's what a ring of regeneration ioun stone would cost, which the item he suggests is arguably better than (because it applies to the whole party).
The only reason I could really see allowing the second item is if you specifically want to run a game where the players are at full HP every encounter. If you do, I'd suggest giving the party a minor relic of their god or something, rather than making someone pay for the item.
If you don't want to say "no" directly, I'd suggest reworking on one of two lines:
Goodberry - This spell is the best example of how the current rules handle potentially unlimited 1 HP healing. Limit the item to 8 HP per person per day (shared by all effects of this type, including goodberry).
Cost - Make the item consume some sort of costly material component. Have it bless 7 gp worth of aromatic oils and spices, that must be applied immediately as part of a full-round action, healing 5 HP.
The second one is basically a bookkeeping-free wand of cure light wounds like the player says he wants (also requires less die-rolling). Make the player worry a bit about gathering the components during downtime and things should balance out cost-wise.
Hope that helped!
Tuesday, 18th September, 2012, 02:52 PM #5
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
Thanks for the replies everyone. Appreciate them.
For the record, after I expressed my reservations, by mail, with the player, specifically re the Healing stone after I posted on here earlier, the player says that he is happy enough to drop the Healing stone and go with wands of Cure Light Wounds. I've given the thumbs up re the Stabilize Token.
Wednesday, 19th September, 2012, 02:27 PM #6
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
If the problem is die rolling for the CLW wand, it would be simple to allow the players the option that 1 use cures 5 hp, and a second use cures 6. The average on 1d8+1 is 5.5, and if you're casting it 50 times, you'll end up pretty close to average over time.
Thursday, 20th September, 2012, 11:01 AM #7
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
That's a pretty cool idea N'raac, thanks. I think the main reason the player wanted to skip the wand idea was because of constant dice rolling. I like your suggestion and I'll say it to the player(s).
On a slightly related note, as I mentioned above, the players are starting 5th Level PCs with starting wealth of 10,500gp to buy items. I dont see it specifically written down in the Core Rulebook (I just glanced through it) but I take it that the "crafting" player character cant just craft his magical items at half market price to get around the budget he is limited to (i.e. he must pay full price for the items he is choosing?).
Thursday, 20th September, 2012, 02:40 PM #8
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
My bias would be to allow the Crafting character to halve the price of those items. The only benefit those skills/feats provide is permitting access to magic items at a lower cost, so if they can't have tat benefit, they should take skills/feats that will provide a benefit to the characters.
That said, at 5th level they would not have had those Crafting feats for very long (could have had the skills to Craft mundane/MW armor and weapons, though), so allowing them to double their effective wealth would also not be overly reasonable.
For potions and scrolls, I'd look to when they ostensibly acquired the feat - if it was, say, L3, assuming those consumables were Crafted seems reasonable. If they've only now obtained the feat (eg. Arms and Armor), limiting them to a portion of their wealth (say 5,000 gp, probably generous) spent on such items to reflect the fact they owned things before seems reasonable.
Wednesday, 3rd October, 2012, 06:58 PM #9
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
What others said. The healing stone is incredibly underpriced for it's power.
A ring of regeneration cost 90.000, takes a body slot, and don't even heal you unless you are wearing it when you took damage. So the Ring of Regeneration can only heal 1 party member. With the Stone, once Jack McRogue is full of hit points, you can use the stone with John O'Fighter and Pete Wizardson.
If the ring of regenearation cost 90.000, that stone should cost *at least* double that.
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 02:29 AM #10
Gallant (Lvl 3)
I know this is (too) late, but I just wanted to throw this out there...
The 3.5 Magic Item Compendium had a scarab of stabilization which cost 20,000gp. Now, that wasn't a once-per-day thing... it would work repeatedly. Also, the item had a second ability; once - ever - if you lost enough hit points to die, it'd stabilize you at -1 hp, then was destroyed.
So, sure, a 1/day item without the secondary ability should be cheaper, but 400gp is way too low. I'd consider 400gp for a single-use version.