Playtest Update

Jeff Carlsen · Sep 26, 2012

CAFRedblade said:
For Vancian casters, I wouldn't mind an option to prepare spells at a higher level slot (not sure how high) which enables multiple uses per day, or simply per encounter, all at the same effects as the lower prepared slot. Perhaps with an option to overcharge it and burn it as a full daily at the actual prepared slot level.

Level 3 Fireball, in appropriate slot does 3d6 damage.
Prepared in a level 6 slot, it has multiple uses, perhaps one per slot level, or is just an encounter spell.
Then if you haven't yet used the spell or another unthought of limiting factor, you can burn it completely for 6d6 damage.

Perhaps this would work similarly for a charm spell, at the higher spell level, you can naturally charm more powerful creatures, or Multiple low level creatures..

I could see something like this. Some spells already have ritual options, so alternative casting mechanisms (essentially metamagic) could be built into certain spells. For example Fireball could have:

Renewable: Prepare this spell as a sixth level spell. This spell is not expended when it is cast, but may not be cast again until the caster spends one minute renewing it.

Infinite: Prepare this spell as a ninth level spell. This spell is not expended when it is cast and may be cast again.

Doing it this way means that the designers can choose which spells get the abilities and what the appropriate level for each ability is.

hbarsquared · Sep 26, 2012

I also think a blanket ritual option would be cool, too. Any spell from your spellbook can be cast as a ritual, but it takes 5 continuous rounds of concentration in combat to cast it (or something).

I kind of like this idea, as it reminds me of Fizban attempted to cast fireball while battle wheels around him.

It's also a fun option if one particular spell that you didn't prepare would be a gamechanger, and worth the five sacrificed rounds while the rest of the party holds off the hordes...

Obryn · Sep 26, 2012

jeremy_dnd said:
I also think a blanket ritual option would be cool, too. Any spell from your spellbook can be cast as a ritual, but it takes 5 continuous rounds of concentration in combat to cast it (or something).

My concern here is with niche protection. If, by just having Invisibility and Knock in your spellbook, you can cast them at-will...

Cybit · Sep 26, 2012

I think rather than worrying about which audiences to capture, and who will be put off by what, that they try to make a great game using what they feel are the best parts of each edition, create it in such a way that allows gaming groups to choose from relatively iconic mechanics for a given element, and go from there.

All this "is it too much like 3.5? is it too much like 4E?" talk are from folks who have forgotten the first rule of making a RPG; make it fun. A good game will not make everyone 100% happy. But it will have enough good elements for folks to deal with the bad elements.

We all keep talking in absolutes like we're in some damn holy war, when, honestly, we're talking about game mechanics. Ultimately, you can't recreate nostalgia, and thankfully WotC has noticed that, and is concentrating (from what I can tell) on creating a game that will allow players to create new memories to look back on.

fba827 · Sep 26, 2012

as a random aside, the last time they did a playtest update like this, it was a couple weeks before they released the next playtest rules. if that holds as a pattern we'll probably get playtest packet 3 in the first half of october (which is right around the corner).

hbarsquared · Sep 27, 2012

Obryn said:
My concern here is with niche protection. If, by just having Invisibility and Knock in your spellbook, you can cast them at-will...

Argh, true, true.

Unless there's an intrinsic limit. You cannot cast the same spell twice until after the first expires, or the second casting replaces. It would solve this problem, and others.... But it might be changing the mechanics too much...

KidSnide · Sep 27, 2012

CAFRedblade said:
For Vancian casters, I wouldn't mind an option to prepare spells at a higher level slot (not sure how high) which enables multiple uses per day, or simply per encounter, all at the same effects as the lower prepared slot. Perhaps with an option to overcharge it and burn it as a full daily at the actual prepared slot level.

This is type of thing best handled on a spell-by-spell basis. A spell like fireball is probably best as a daily ability, so you just want more powerful fireballs when prepared at higher levels. A spell like Burning Hands works as a daily ability at 1st level, but it's kind of lame to have a super-damaging 6th level Burning Hands, so offering it as an encounter ability as a higher level spell makes sense. As noted up thread, spells like Knock and Invisibility have their own balance issues if granted as encounter or at-will abilities.

-KS

keterys · Sep 27, 2012

KidSnide said:
This is type of thing best handled on a spell-by-spell basis. A spell like fireball is probably best as a daily ability, so you just want more powerful fireballs when prepared at higher levels. A spell like Burning Hands works as a daily ability at 1st level, but it's kind of lame to have a super-damaging 6th level Burning Hands, so offering it as an encounter ability as a higher level spell makes sense. As noted up thread, spells like Knock and Invisibility have their own balance issues if granted as encounter or at-will abilities.

-KS

I equate burning hands and fireball... what sets one apart from the other, in your mind?

I mean, fireball is just some damage to an area. It could be at-will, encounter, or daily entirely dependent on area size and damage. And as a daily, it's tricky to balance. I suspect it ends up as either a game changer, largely nullifying an encounter... or it's just a handful of damage tossed about.

ZombieRoboNinja · Sep 27, 2012

I find it interesting that the thing I hate about Vancian casting (overlong lists of inflexibly prepared spells, half of which are weak for the character's level) seems to be the completely unrelated to the problem a lot of other people have with it (daily recharge rate).

I'm A Banana · Sep 27, 2012

Klaus said:
Why not take a page from the 3.5e Reserve Feats? If you take this feat/specialty (Recharge Mage?), you can cast minor versions of spells you prepare, yadda-yadda. A Recharge Mage that prepares fireball can cause minor bursts of fire, etc, etc.

'tain't a horrid idea. My only concern with that is that this means forgoing other specialties -- which might be fine or maybe not. If I need to give up being a "Defender" or "Sharpshooter" to do this...feats might not be the best silo for this.

Obryn said:
My concern here is with niche protection. If, by just having Invisibility and Knock in your spellbook, you can cast them at-will...

IIRC, Mearls mentioned that they were paying attention to this -- to make sure Invisibilty and Knock and the like were balanced in effect with what someone could accomplish with a d20 roll.

But it's a valid concern, if part of the reason Invisibility is balanced with a Dex check is that the former is spike and the latter is more averaged out.