Gaming W/Jemal: Planar Quest! (Closed) - Page 13





View Poll Results: Which Setting would you prefer Jemal to DM?

Voters
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  • Epic Problem : I want to fight the Epic Villains!

    1 8.33%
  • Jemal's Quest : I want to adventure across the Planes!

    9 75.00%
  • Epic Problem: I won't be playing, but this sounds fun to watch!

    1 8.33%
  • Jemal's Quest: I won't be playing, but this sounds fun to watch!

    1 8.33%
  • Meh, Neither grabs my attention.

    0 0%
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  1. #121
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    I Defended The Walls!

    Ignore Shayuri
    Disintegrate just does damage, it's not save-or-lose. It's also subject to touch AC, miss chances, spell resistance...there's lots of ways to defend against it.

    Pmorph Any Object has a save-or-lose component in that it can emulate Baleful Polymorph or Flesh to Stone, but its utility FAR transcends that. Even if I never turn an enemy into a fish, it's still super useful I would think.

    Any other ideas/opinions on this matter?

 

  • #122
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    Ignore Scott DeWar
    Quote Originally Posted by kinem View Post
    Polymorph Any Object is a save-or-lose spell, so don't get it. Disintegrate is quite iffy in that regard as well. Do you want Jemal using these spells on us?

    Yes, you could avoid using the spells for situations when they would be the most useful like fighting bosses, but that's just in-character stupidity, and I would not want to be part of a game like that.

    I've nerfed my warlock quite a bit to avoid M.A.D.
    with the exception of Limited wish, I don't have any of those instant kill/difuse buttons. fyi!
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  • #123
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    Ignore Scott DeWar
    A new question: are there languages of particular areas?
    common might be a trade/travel tongue, but home port might speak King's tongue or something.
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  • #124
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    Ignore kinem
    Quote Originally Posted by Shayuri View Post
    Pmorph Any Object has a save-or-lose component in that it can emulate Baleful Polymorph or Flesh to Stone, but its utility FAR transcends that. Even if I never turn an enemy into a fish, it's still super useful I would think.
    That doesn't help; if you fail to use it as a save-or-lose when you know it could be, you are intentionally holding back or being stupid IC.

    What you could do is ask Jemal for a nerfed version of the spell, that wouldn't affect creatures, just as he let me take a nerfed version of Noxious Blast.

  • #125
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    I Defended The Walls!

    Ignore Shayuri
    I see no problem with having a character who chooses not to use spells in their most deadly expressions due to moral/ethical or other considerations...and who is also not stupid.

    But I will take one piece of your advice, which is to take the matter up with Jemal.

    Mister GM, if we could get your weigh-in here?

  • #126
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    Ignore Scott DeWar
    also see how pathfinder changed p morph spells
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  • #127
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    I Defended The Walls!

    Ignore Shayuri
    Yeah, but it doesn't matter. This is a 3.5e game first.

    So the only Pathfinder spell descriptions we'll be using are the ones that are only in Pathfinder. Any spell that's in both of them will be using the 3.5e rules.

    That's my take on what Jemal's said so far.

  • #128
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    Ignore Scott DeWar
    But if he is wanting to cut down on save or die stuff, pf worked that in as one of the objectives. That is all I was implying.
    Last edited by Scott DeWar; Monday, 15th October, 2012 at 09:06 PM.
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  • #129
    Yeah, but it doesn't matter. This is a 3.5e game first.

    So the only Pathfinder spell descriptions we'll be using are the ones that are only in Pathfinder. Any spell that's in both of them will be using the 3.5e rules.

    That's my take on what Jemal's said so far.
    Correct.


    That doesn't help; if you fail to use it as a save-or-lose when you know it could be, you are intentionally holding back or being stupid IC.
    I wholeheartedly disagree with you. You're basically saying "Ever Using anything other than your most lethal alternative is stupid".. and I personally think that's ridiculous.
    PaO for example - PaO is one of my favourite spells, as a self-styled 'transmuter extraordinaire', I give it to every character capable of casting it... and I've NEVER (To my recollection, I have been playing for like 15 years..) used it (directly) against a boss. (And I've played a LOT of high level mages in several combat-heavy and long running campaigns)
    As a long-time Power gamer, and much-accused Twink I cant think of anybody who'd ever call how I play 'holding back'. Especially not b/c I don't use PaO as a 'save or' spell. And I can only think of a few people who would ever refer to me as stupid (And that's cuz they're bigger stupid-heads! )
    As Shayuri said, it's utility is far too useful, and it's usage on living creatures is part of that utility.. Not just as a boss killer, but using it on allies, lesser foes, or even random wildlife. (flock of pigeons flying over town + chained PaO = Horde of Rhinos falling into town. MUAHAHA).
    Or the ever useful "polymorph tons of rock into a carrot. Polymorph second pile of rock into bunny. give carrot to bunny and FRAG OUT! Interesting way to destroy small cities.

    Disintegrate CAN deal a lot of damage, but as shayuri said, it requires a touch attack, SR, AND Saving throw (which reduces the damage to the equivalent of a magic missile), and even if you get it to work at full strength, it's still not a guaranteed kill.
    38d6 at this CL is avg 133 hp.. even max (without Metamagic) it's only 228. I can guarantee you that's not going to one shot any boss you guys fight. Add to that the fact that there are lots of spells with more Damage potential at this level.. and most of them don't allow saves.

    other examples: Telekinesis can also be used as a save or loose spell, but that's not its primary function, nor what most mages use it for.
    you could Shapechange into a creature with a save-or ability, and some Summonable monsters fall into the same category, so does that mean these spells should be classified as 'Save Or'?
    Just because you're not using the most broken/powerful trick available doesn't mean you're holding back/being stupid. Trust me, several of the people I game with know way more broken/powerful tricks than I do. We like coming up with them, but actually using them is.. meh. It's like cheating at a video game. Sure the concept of invincibility and golden bullets is entertaining, but it gets boring after a very short while.


    Side Note - The reason I don't use Save or spells Personally when I'm PLAYING isn't b/c of MAD, or b/c I'm holding back.. it's because I'm NOT holding back. I HATE the feeling of using a big nasty spell, and... nothing happens. The guy saved, better luck next time. I avoid 'death spells' b/c I don't like all-or-nothing, it has absolutely nothing to do with holding back.
    I saw a 1-on-1 game once where someone played a death mage. It was pretty much Roll saves for the badguy till he fails, then figure out how much damage he deals to the death mage in that many rounds. *yawn* next fight?

    I understand that, properly designed you can get a character with a 'death spell' that's extremely hard to resist, but for that point, I could also make a character who deals such ridiculous damage nothing can survive.. both I find boring.. It's got nothing to do with which is stronger, just which is more entertaining.
    Nobody's ever 'honestly' accused my mages of being less-than effective.
    *This is just when I'm PLAYING, my reasons as a DM are different. Encounters seem much more entertaining and challenging without the 'instakill' possibility.


    What you could do is ask Jemal for a nerfed version of the spell, that wouldn't affect creatures, just as he let me take a nerfed version of Noxious Blast.
    To the second half,
    The difference with noxious blast is that it's MADE to be used as an attack, it doesn't have any other purpose.. and really, it's not much of a nerf, we both thought it was 1 round and still were willing to use it, showing how powerful it still is even like that. as a full minute, it's pretty OP (Especially when you account for the fact that a warlock can literally cast it all day long)



    A Note : I think some people are going a bit overboard on the MAD-lookout. It was meant as a way of saying "Don't be giant bags of feminine hygiene product", but now things seem to be getting looked at as a "Do I want the DM having access to this".
    I use MAD to avoid 'cast spell end encounter'
    Weird, Finger of Death, Imprisonment, Dominate, Hideous Laughter, Irresistible dance, flesh to stone, etc.
    Things that are, flat out, primary purpose: "Use: if opponent isn't immune & fails save, you win."
    Last edited by Jemal; Monday, 15th October, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
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  • #130
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    Ignore Binder Fred
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemal View Post
    *ON THAT NOTE :
    I've had a minor change of heart on items.. I will allow minor changes on items, such as removing a 'times/day' restriction. For example, the previously mentioned greater gloves of arrow snaring are OK
    Sorry for the flip-flopping.*
    Certainly won't hear *me* complaining.

    [Ring of Stone and Earth]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemal View Post
    I'm torn on this.. on the one hand, It's an interesting item and I'm tempted to allow the earth gliding. On the other hand, I've had really bad experiences with incorporeal/ethereal/burrowing/'ignore obstacle' spells...
    Hows this : I'll let you have the original earth glide item, but if I feel you're abusing it, I'll have to do something about it. Sound kosher?
    Very much so. And the spell specifically states that it only applies to "Stone, dirt and all kinds of earths" (which means he can't go through wood, plants/living matter or (probably) bone, for one) and then goes on to exclude all metals. So you've got plenty of fairly realistic ways of blocking/manipulating the power at crucial points if need be -- besides the old anti-magic zone, that is.

    [Googles of True Sight]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemal View Post
    Hows this : I'll give you True sight 30 min/day (standard action to activate, swift to deactivate) split into rounds/mins as required(like the gem), and Powersight unlimited usage, swift action activation.
    Total cost 100K
    Wow. Ask and yee shall receive, eh?

    I'm probably going to regret this, but are you sure about the Power Sight bit? I mean, this way can't he have it on all the time without any downside at all? Maybe tie it to a certain time-cost on the True Sight duration instead, say -30 seconds per use or the like?
    So it goes.
    Active characters
    Antares, an Elven fighter/mage in Gambler1650's Legacy of the Silver Dragon 1 2 (S&S 4th)
    Fastus, blacksmith of flames in Tailspinner's Jade Regent (Pathfinder)
    Midgrim Goldhammer, a hefty dwarven fighter in Imperialus' Dwimmermount Dungeon (L L)
    Memorable games
    Sloor Sanbraiz, a Besalisk scoundrel in Possum's Dawn of Defiance I II (Star Wars Saga)
    Seif al Mariam, a touareg guide in Relique du Madde's Warlords of the Red Sands (PL6 M&M)
    Nightshift, a teleporting security guard in Jemal's Mutant Rising (PL10 M&M)

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