D&D 5E There are zero incarnations of swarm rules that I don't hate.

B.T. · Sep 26, 2012

5e, please fix this. In my very first 3e campaign--my very first time playing D&D!--our entire party was almost TPKed by a swarm of locusts. Then in my very second 4e game, we fought a swarm of spiders. We didn't die, but it was really annoying nonetheless. It's also unsatisfying to do damage to a lump of hit points.

I've decided that swarm rules are stupid. If you want a swarm of rats, then throw ten rats against the party. If you want a swarm of locusts, treat it as an environmental hazard, not a monster that can be chopped to death.

Zaukrie · Sep 26, 2012

Disagree, I like swarms to a large degree.

Moon_Goddess · Sep 26, 2012

Oh please... don't get rid of swarm rules, I refuse to run 10 rats with advantage...

Chris_Nightwing · Sep 26, 2012

I think that previous swarm rules have always worked quite well. Only some kinds of attacks will work against a mass of many individuals. Perhaps they are a little too deadly on the offensive side - they could have a built in death spiral so that their damage output was based on their remaining hitpoints. I might be tempted to use a sort of remaining HP vs. AC system to determine how much damage you take, no need for attack rolls.

the Jester · Sep 26, 2012

Swarms rule.

While I have no problem with running a combat against 20 giant rats, it's a whole nother thing when you're talking about millions of ants.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Sep 26, 2012

I have to say, I really, really like the swarm rules variations that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] 's mentioned before (where a hobgoblin pike formation could "kill" adjacent hobgoblins to heal) and ... uh ... someone else? mentioned (where a swarm, when defeated, leaves a couple low-powered versions of it behind as survivors).

That being said, swarms can be really hard to deal with at low-levels depending on the ruleset (because, generally, your access to non-standard-weapon damage is significantly curtailed).

Get that right, and use some of the above variations (when appropriate) to prevent them from being gigantic bags of hit points, and I think you'll have some improved swarm rules (and the ones we have in 3.XE and 4E are still pretty good).

slobster · Sep 26, 2012

It seems like the rats and kobolds in the playtest were WotC sticking a toe into those waters. 6 rats attacking a single person could get condensed into a single attack, with a single roll and a single source of damage. No other fuss necessary, although their hp are counted separately.

I like swarms, too though. I'm sure they'll turn up eventually.

Neonchameleon · Sep 26, 2012

B.T. said:
5e, please fix this. In my very first 3e campaign--my very first time playing D&D!--our entire party was almost TPKed by a swarm of locusts. Then in my very second 4e game, we fought a swarm of spiders. We didn't die, but it was really annoying nonetheless. It's also unsatisfying to do damage to a lump of hit points.

I've decided that swarm rules are stupid. If you want a swarm of rats, then throw ten rats against the party. If you want a swarm of locusts, treat it as an environmental hazard, not a monster that can be chopped to death.

Unlikely to happen. Mearls on handing the rats in the first playtest as individuals:

The question:

Mike Mearls, can you please explain why including 18 rats in a single encounter of the playtest was ever a good idea, especially since you included no rules for handling such large groups of enemies (Swarms, mooks, minions, etc.) and especially since they have 'Advantage' constantly thanks to such high numbers meaning you roll 36d20 every time you want them to do anything?

Mearls' answer:

You could say it was a good idea in that it gave us a lot of immediate, aggressive feedback to never, ever, ever do that again and to immediately, right now, fix that.

They've tried it your way, in the first playtest no less, and it worked extremely badly.

B.T. · Sep 26, 2012

I would never include 18 rats in a single encounter. There's something much more satisfying about killing a rat than plinking away at a mass of hit points that represents a rat swarm.

DEFCON 1 · Sep 26, 2012

B.T. said:
I would never include 18 rats in a single encounter. There's something much more satisfying about killing a rat than plinking away at a mass of hit points that represents a rat swarm.

I would suggest that if all you're getting from your story when facing a rat swarm is a "mass of hit points"... part of the issue might be how your DM is describing and coloring the swarm. ANY monster can be a "mass of hit points" if the DM does nothing to emphasize the uniqueness of what you're facing.