Dnd/Pathfinder Dragon and Dungeon Magazines - Do You Miss Them? - Page 5





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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Jester View Post
    Worse yet, I'm sure the cost to restart physical production would be tremendous- it's prolly out of the question. And even if it weren't, I wouldn't trust the content to be worth the cover price, after the continuous, mutli-year DDI disaster. I would have to page through each issue before I picked it up.
    I do not think that we will ever see a physical print version of Dragon or Dragon magazines ever again. From what Paizo have said in the past, getting a new print mag up and running is very expensive and not overly profitable. Yes, Dragon and Dungeon would have some advantages compared to a completely new magazine in terms of advertisers and subscribers, but not enough for it to be worth WotC's effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obryn View Post
    I am also left wondering why this matters so much to folks who didn't switch to 4e. I mean, in a hypothetical world with paper Dragon/Dungeon, these would still have been 4e magazines - not 3.x or earlier. There's no hypothetical world in which Dragon/Dungeon would have reasonably kept pushing out 3.x content. Would you really have kept your subscriptions? As far as I can tell, you're down a few magazines either way.
    My group currently plays 3.5E but I think I would have still bought 4E copies of Dungeon magazine. Even if I couldn't directly use the material, the ideas for the adventures (or possible conversions) would still be worth it for me.

    As for a 4E Dragon mag, yes it would be a lot less useful. However, I quite liked a lot of the more fluffy articles, like 'The Play's The Thing' and other advice type articles or the 'Ecology of the XXXX'. These were often quite edition-neutral and would have still been of use to me.

    So I wouldn't have considered them to be a 'loss' for me if they were still around, but putting out only 4E material.

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  • #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf the Stout View Post
    I do not think that we will ever see a physical print version of Dragon or Dragon magazines ever again. From what Paizo have said in the past, getting a new print mag up and running is very expensive and not overly profitable. Yes, Dragon and Dungeon would have some advantages compared to a completely new magazine in terms of advertisers and subscribers, but not enough for it to be worth WotC's effort.
    Me either, but digital publishing's time has come since 2007. Tablets and eReaders are becoming more and more commonplace, and they'll only get moreso in the future, with growing competition in the $200 range. I think WotC was just a few years early on switching to digital-only.

    What I'm saying is, even if paper publication of Dragon and Dungeon hadn't stopped 5 years ago, they almost certainly would have by now, anyway. Look at any paper magazine these days - they are either very expensive, crammed full of ads, or (increasingly) both. And the lower the circulation, the worse these problems get.

    ...
    So I wouldn't have considered them to be a 'loss' for me if they were still around, but putting out only 4E material.
    Good to know, but I suppose I'm not as attached to the paper product as I thought I was. The sorts of articles you're talking about were all over the digital magazines back in its early days. (not so much nowadays, mind you - but on the plus side (for you, not me ) I'd say the articles are mainly fluff now with very few mechanics.

    -O

  • #43
    Yeah, I still miss them. I miss getting my subscription copies in the mail, and I miss writing for them.

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  • #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richards View Post
    Yeah, I still miss them. I miss getting my subscription copies in the mail, and I miss writing for them.

    Johnathan
    I used to love those Monster Hunter ecology articles.

    Olaf the Stout
    Finished running my group through the SCAP, now I'm running them through the AoW AP

  • #45
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    Look at any paper magazine these days - they are either very expensive, crammed full of ads, or (increasingly) both. And the lower the circulation, the worse these problems get.
    100% true...but as I look at the magazines I still subscribe to- all physical- I note that will still be able to read than as my iPad2 approaches a 4% charge, can loan them out easily...and use them to swat flies without risking a calamitous loss.
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  • #46
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    I had stopped buying Dragon somewhere after issue 200, when I realised I hadn't enjoyed it since about 1990. And Dungeon was never widely available in the UK. When 3e started I looked at Dragon and thought it had nothing to offer me, it was all PC splat stuff. Consequently I was not aware when Paizo got the license, and I feel I may have missed some good stuff especially from Dungeon magazine, but that is all retrospective. My 3e era gaming was very much WoTC core rules plus 3rd party adventures, mostly Necromancer Games stuff.

    I only looked at the mags again with the free 4e online issues; I still didn't see much of value in Dragon, still PC splat stuff only for for 4e, but I have read a good number of the articles, printed out some of the Dungeon adventures, and I've even run two of them - Menace of the Icy Spire and Heathen. By contrast I looked at some of the free 3e-era adventures on WotC's site but none ever seemed worth running.

    Overall I'd say that 4e era online Dragon & Dungeon were of some use to me, but nothing like my personal golden age for Dragon which was 136 to ca 180 or so. But I was young, there was no Internet, and you can't go back.
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  • #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obryn View Post
    I am also left wondering why this matters so much to folks who didn't switch to 4e. I mean, in a hypothetical world with paper Dragon/Dungeon, these would still have been 4e magazines - not 3.x or earlier. There's no hypothetical world in which Dragon/Dungeon would have reasonably kept pushing out 3.x content. Would you really have kept your subscriptions? As far as I can tell, you're down a few magazines either way.
    Two things:

    1) Having a reliable stream of high-quality adventures (and, critically, one or more Adventure Paths) delivered to me on a monthly basis would have made me and my group much more likely to switch to 4e. And at the time of the cancellation I had nearly 3 years left on my subscriptions, so that's pretty significant. (Indeed, with fact that those subscriptions converted to getting 14 issues of Pathfinder 'free' went a very long way towards making me a long-term subscriber to that product.)

    2) I've actually used virtually nothing from Dragon. I was always more interested in reading it for the sake of the content (and especially for the regular drop of information). Articles like the Demonomicon and Sean Reynolds' series on deities were the ones I most looked forward to, for the information and flavour rather than for immediate game use. So, provided those articles had continued, I would almost certainly have continued to subscribe (and certainly would have for the nearly three years I'd already paid for!).

    But, rightly or wrongly, I always saw the e-magazines and the DDI as a new product. I had no inbuilt loyalty (and always had a strong preference not to read long columns online). So they had to sell me on the DDI from scratch, and having failed to sell me on 4e already, they had no chance to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obryn View Post
    Me either, but digital publishing's time has come since 2007. Tablets and eReaders are becoming more and more commonplace, and they'll only get moreso in the future, with growing competition in the $200 range. I think WotC was just a few years early on switching to digital-only.

    What I'm saying is, even if paper publication of Dragon and Dungeon hadn't stopped 5 years ago, they almost certainly would have by now, anyway.
    There's a lot of truth in this.

    I do think WotC made two key mistakes, though:

    1) Rather than being a few years early, I would say they were a few years premature. The time to switch to electronic magazines is now, with the iPad and similar coming into very wide use.

    2) I also think it was a mistake to go online only in one fell swoop. Paizo have shown the way here - start by offering them as both physical and electonic versions, with the e-version made available in both compiled and per-article formats (and released on the same date). Initially, have subscribers to the physical version get the e-version as a free extra... in time, you can then start to offer e-version-only subscriptions, and then probably start to phase out the physical versions entirely as and when your customers vote with their dollars.

  • #48
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    At least you can pass on the print editions to family or friends when you die.

    Inheritance of digital assets is a sticky situation at the moment as Bruce Willis will atest.
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  • #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulofCthulhu View Post
    At least you can pass on the print editions to family or friends when you die.

    Inheritance of digital assets is a sticky situation at the moment as Bruce Willis will atest.
    Conversely, when you die your friends and family may have to deal with loads of physical products that had great sentimental value to you (and so they don't feel right just binning them), but that they don't actually want.

    Off topic: My expectation is that we're going to end up at a point where we don't really 'own' any digital assets at all - more likely (IMO) is that we'll all end up paying subscriptions to one or more content providers for access to a library of assets. The advantage being for us that we gain access to a much larger library of material than if we bought each thing individually, the disadvantage being that if we let the subscription lapse we lose access.

    But, as I said on another thread, there's a real good chance that's entirely wrong. My crystal ball has been less than 100% reliable of late.

  • #50
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    My expectation is that we're going to end up at a point where we don't really 'own' any digital assets at all - more likely (IMO) is that we'll all end up paying subscriptions to one or more content providers for access to a library of assets.
    I agree with this prognosis. However, I, for one, will not welcome that lifestyle.

    The more things go to that kind of subscription model, the more my leisure dollars will migrate to buying jewelry making supplies like these, or guitars like this one to play.
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