RPGs Fudging is not your friend


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    Fudging is not your friend

    For years, I was a player under a variety of GMs, and the finally, I ascended to the other side of the screen. Fromm there, I started by looking at the GMs I'd played under, and came to a hard choice: I wanted to see what a campaign looked like with no fudging.

    No last moments saves or bailouts, no NPCs who were un-statted that could totally trounce the party, everything above board. Well, at first it was...............................

    a bit of train wreck, as a number of PCs died.

    It might have ended there, save that one of my gamers' light bulbs came on. They'd just gotten used to a certain flow of game, and just needed to get out of the rut.

    Suddenly, plans would start going, and the party's overall unity increased. They started digging in, and formulating new strategies. Combats became more tense, because even a kobold encounter could end up going south if they weren't on point.

    Monsters that were cowards ran away (i.e. kobolds), creatures made use of all their abilities, and as the PC death rate increased, a rather interesting thing happened: They were more engaged, and started talking more in-character. Whole plots developed out of their own actions and interactions, and they felt like it was more about them than other campaigns had been.

    The reach for magical items changed as well. All of the sudden, boots of springing and striding and rings of sustenance became of greater value than most magical arms and armor, because they removed impediments, or allowed greater tactical movement.

    On my side, villains were made more sinister as I had to pull together in-game ways of doing what would normally have just been fudged by the GM. Instead of the party calling BS when I did something, they might say something like, "Wait, he shouldn't be able to do that."

    Me: "I know, right?"

    and the KNOW that I'm being serious.

    My skills as a GM improved by the simple omission of the easy way out. If someone was at 1 hp, and got nailed with a massive crit, it went through, most likely killing them. If they found a weakness in one of my villains, and capitalized on it, they would win. Depending on the villain, however, there might be consequences and repercussions to just snuffing him like that.

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    If that's the way you wish to roll, go for it.

    I, on the other hand, prefer another path. Sometimes, I feel like I've got to say "to hell with the dice. Let's have some fun instead."
    "If it has stats, we can kill it." - T.G. Jackson, intro to 3rd ed Hackmaster

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormonu View Post
    If that's the way you wish to roll, go for it.

    I, on the other hand, prefer another path. Sometimes, I feel like I've got to say "to hell with the dice. Let's have some fun instead."

    Why are the dice not involved in your fun? They should be the first thing included in the festivities. I've had perfectly fun times, as has the entire group, without having to cut any part of the game out, or fudge on anything. I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Why are the dice not involved in your fun? They should be the first thing included in the festivities. I've had perfectly fun times, as has the entire group, without having to cut any part of the game out, or fudge on anything. I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive goals.
    Don't try to twist my words, please.

    Sometimes I don't agree with the results of the dice. I will change them when that occurs, and I will not be dissuaded otherwise.

    Calm down soldier - he's talking about a fun experience he's had putting the dice in charge, you respond with a one-liner and he makes a light hearted comment in reply. I think you're reading offence in here where none is intended, and it is better for everyone if they avoid doing this. Thanks. Plane Sailing, ENworld admin
    Last edited by Plane Sailing; Friday, 5th October, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
    "If it has stats, we can kill it." - T.G. Jackson, intro to 3rd ed Hackmaster

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormonu View Post
    Don't try to twist my words, please.

    Sometimes I don't agree with the results of the dice. I will change them when that occurs, and I will not be dissuaded otherwise.
    Okay... learn to laugh. I was jokingly going to call you a diceist, but clearly, joking with you is out.
    Last edited by Plane Sailing; Friday, 5th October, 2012 at 10:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormonu View Post
    Don't try to twist my words, please.

    Sometimes I don't agree with the results of the dice. I will change them when that occurs, and I will not be dissuaded otherwise.
    [/COLOR][/B]
    If a possible result is unacceptable, it shouldn't be possible to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonStryk72 View Post
    Why are the dice not involved in your fun? They should be the first thing included in the festivities.
    No. PEOPLE should be the first thing included in the festivities.

    Maybe, just maybe, his players like it better his way. Maybe not everyone has to play the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormonu View Post
    I, on the other hand, prefer another path. Sometimes, I feel like I've got to say "to hell with the dice. Let's have some fun instead."
    I am always torn between the two different approaches

    In my early days of DMing I used to fudge the dice quite often. The reason was that I was afraid. I was never sure if I was making an encounter or a trap too hard or too easy, and I didn't trust the CR system of 3ed very much, so I often relied on fudging the dice up or down.

    Later I think I became more aware that the players should be responsible for their PC's fate more than the DM. If the DM throws a too hard or even impossible encounter (whether by mistake or on purpose), it's the player's responsibility to realize they are losing and get the hell out of the encounter instead of getting killed one by one by stubbornly continue to fight.

    The real problem is that there are situations when they don't have time to figure it out! We all know that e.g. save-or-die spells and abilities are one danger against the ability of assessing whether an encounter is too difficult.

    Another fundamental thing I became aware about the game is that my plan is not better than random's plan If I had planned for a certain course of the story where the PCs storm castle X, kill BBEG Y and destroy artifact Z to save the world, this is actually not going to be really more fun or interesting than a course where either X, Y or Z goes wrong. Maybe some DM is as great as a movie director, but I strongly believe that 99% of us are not better than a mediocre novelist or a B-movie junior director, and our "great" campaign ideas are almost always the same 2-3 stories. Hence, letting the dice pick the course does not really makes the campaign overall worse than it is when everything goes the way I planned

    [addendum: what makes a campaign truly great is not the story, which is always the same, it's the memorable details, descriptions, anecdotes and social situations around the table!]

    But the final caveat is that different people (and I don't mean just DMs, I mean different players in the same group) have different concept of fun.

    I was never of the idea that a game of D&D should be for me as relaxing as watching a TV series from my couch, where I expect that everything ends up nicely for the protagonists. But maybe some of my players do... maybe they don't want a challenging game, they want an easy relaxing game, perhaps some of them are even the types that regularly used cheat codes in computer games to get through the story and beat the game easily.

    So the hardest part for a DM is making compromises between what is everybody's different expectations and concept of fun, and this is why I haven't completely ruled out the idea of fudging.
    Last edited by Li Shenron; Friday, 5th October, 2012 at 10:24 AM.
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    These days, I make all of my dice rolls out in the open, where any player who cares to can take a look. (That said, I keep the stats and associated modifiers hidden, so all they know is that I'm not fudging the rolls.)

    I've had a couple of discussions on this with another GM in our group, who maintains that this is a mistake - that the game would flow better if I were to at least give myself the option of fudging rolls (in either direction).

    Here's a truth: My players have fun. Loads of fun. I believe that vindicates my choice.

    Here's another truth: His players have fun. Loads of fun. I believe that also vindicates his choice.

    My choice not to fudge rolls did have one massive effect on the game this week - one of the characters took a hit for 29 damage. On checking the sheet, the player then realised that his character had been killed outright, reduced from 18 hit points to -11 (3.5e, so dead). At which point I was sorely tempted to rule that the character was instead reduced to -8 hit points or so, but I really felt I couldn't due to the rolls being in the open, the results all being declared, and everything being clear.

    It was a somewhat painful moment, and it definitely dominated the game session, but I'm convinced in was the right decision to let the dice lie where they fell. (Not least because had the character dropped to -8, it's likely the other PCs would have tried to help her. But none of them had enough hit points to be confident that they wouldn't be slain outright by one more hit. It's entirely possible that fudging to keep that one PC alive might have resulted in a TPK.)

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