DM Advice on dealing with PCs buying/selling magic items

Well, my group hasn't been in a town with a gold limit above 4000 gp yet, which makes things easier for me (they can buy anything they like, not that much available below that price anyway).

However, I'd think that the fact that everything they sell is a half price and everything they buy is at full price should be enough motivation for them to use what they get. If they *really* want another item, they'll have to make a major sacrifice.

If it's just spare money, let them buy what they want. NPCs and monsters in my world don't go running around with hundreds of pounds of gold pieces in their pockets however (they prefer to spend it on things that make them more powerful, just as the PCs would).

I also like my simplified appraise/sell system: I just tell them the exact value of anything they find, then I use a modifier to the 50% price they can always get depending on a mix of Appraise/Sense Motive/Bluff or Diplomacy and possible relevant Professions or Crafts. It's only a couple percent, but definitly worth investing in the skills in the long rung (with Appraise being the most important one of course).

As a DM there is an issue to address before you should change things:
Are magic items a liquid commodity?
It seems that kengar has already decided he doesn't like this option, but give it some thought. PCs only get 1/2 value from sales, and must pay full price for new gear. The result is a net loss of power and if anything excessive selling of items should weaken a party. If the PCs do not treasure they find, then perhaps they are finding too much. The cost of selling a new magic item should hurt (or the NPCs have magic gear so lousy that selling it is still more attractive than keeping it). In addition, some selling probably must be done in order to buy newer shiner swords as PCs go up levels. That being said, if selling magic is not be a game balance issue then it falls into the realm of flavor.

More flavorful magic items
If you want to avoid the taste of a magic bazaar, than you could invest the time to create items that really floor the PCs. Create new items. Benefits include:
1) Metagaming the item function is impossible.
2) Without a clear identification, the PCs need to apprise the item, not have their players look it up in the Big Book O' Magic.
3) PCs will tend cherish unique treasure more than "stuff from the book"
4) It will encourage players to make their own gear to get custom items.

Leveled Magic Items
There have been a couple of ways that magic items can improve as the PCs increase level. Doing this with the equipment that "has" to advance like armor and weapons means that the PC don't have to have the Final Fantasy/CRPG attitude toward magic just to survive.

I hope this helps.
Kugar

Here is how I do it:

None-roleplaying, OOC selling of magic items = 50% of DMG base cost.

Roleplaying, at the table and in character, can fetch anywhere from 60%-120% of the base price (depends on the need of the item, the players diplomacy/bluff, and roleplaying ideas/goodness). Just state that up front, it will be 50% base cost unless they roleplay it out.

Makes it real easy.

TLG

Another thing to remember is that characters who wander around looking for somebody to take that +2 sword off their hands are going to draw alot of attention. First off a 100gp is alot of money in D&D 10000gp is a insane amount of wealth +100000 gp is kinglike wealth, when you start dealing with some of these numbers you are going to stick out like a sore thumb, you can't carry this much gold around and unless you have a small army to protect it you will look like a easy score for thieves and evil characters. Second anybody trying to get rid of a +2 sword must have some real powerful magic items, this will really bring the evil out of the woodwork, flaunting this much wealth and magic can't help but draw attention. It will also draw all sorts of annoyances to them, think about when somebody win's the lottery and then they claim how nobody will leave them alone. Parties that flaunt this much wealth and power should be hit up by every chairity or needy person in town, every merchant with something to sell, every con artist or person with a "once in a lifetime" buisness plan and every vague relative that can claim any relationship at all. They are flaunting wealth it will get around.

I can see this being a potential problem but I think you could mitigate it somewhat by altering the location of the adventures. Our last several campaigns have seen most of the adventuring take place far from civilization where the nearest town of any size is at least a week's travel. That means that stopping in the middle of the adventure to cash in treasure is not really an option.

Here are some ideas I didn't see. I DM but I prefer to play as much as possible. I hate when I am told NO..... because the DM doesn't want to go this way or hasn't thought of something. Or us players are ruining HIS adventure. It should be a colaberation. Instead of being arbitrary or negative, I try to think of unintended concequesnces of the actions. Others have listed very good economic advice.

First of all I wouldn't penalise the alignment or special class abilities unless a paladin is involved. I would give reminders though.

Lets say they kill the bad guys and take thier loot and leave without freeing the peasants. Run with it.

1. They still have to get out. Maybe 1 or more of the items attract trouble to them.

2. How much can they carry? How fast can they move.

3. Improvise some guardians that follow. Some invisible stalkers are nice especially with a few rogue levels. Have a recuring enemy that figures out thier mode of operation and prepares accordingly and sets a trap to ensnare them and take thier custom high powered items. Use 1 and 2 above. The underlings can be equiped with low cost gaseous form potions, scrolls of D. Door, invisibility potions ect. Have 1 are more items "laced" with a bug that lets the bad guys track them. Wear them down. A mid to high level Rogue/Wizard would make a great enemy. (He could even have noticed them selling magic items repeatedly)

4. Have some items be cursed and the buyers want revenge. Maybe the +1 sword is only +1 in the hands of a good person. But becomes a +5 vampric lifestealing sword in the hands of a neutral person and grants them specilization until it turns them into a vampire over a few weeks. The local wizards guild tracked the sellers down and want to have a word with them.

5. They end up selling very powerfull items for very low prices (see the IDENTIFY suggestions) and fing out how powerfull it is when used against them.,, Again.

6. Use the items themselves as recuring villians.

-D

kengar said:

This has been an ongoing issue for me when I DM and I was wondering how others handled it when they are DM-ing.

Whenever the party finds treasure, some of the players immediately jump into what I call "bean-counter" mode. They start calculating the GP value of the items and figuring out what they can sell them for as well as what they might buy with the porfits (new magic items, etc.). Almost never do they actually want to keep the magic items for themselves; preferring the idea of getting items "custom made" or buying standard items from the DMG which they would prefer.

Now, I like how 3e has provided more detailed rules and prices on items than some other systems and versions of DnD, but a couple of my players are taking this further than I'm really comfortable with. They use the DMG like a "Kelley's Blue Book" for magic items and try and figure out to the copper exactly what their loot is worth and what they can afford to buy. When I tell them what they can sell an item for, and that their characters don't HAVE a DMG price list to go by, etc.; they constantly try to talk me up on the price. They also are always "hustling" for any price break or advantage they can get in buying items, etc.

If they would do these in game and in character, I wouldn't really mind; but it's always a flurry of between session phone calls & emails trying to get the "bookkeeping" out of the way before the next game (a motivation I applaud). The problem is they aren't willing to play out the transactions and use their character skills in a session for it and they don't like to just accept my rulings and cope when handling it "offline."

*sigh*

Sorry to babble on about this. I'm venting a bit. The players involved are friends whom I've gamed with a long time (decades!), but their bean-counting sucks a lot of the fun out of the game for me because:
1) it strains the credibility of the game world to have them be so "cut & dried" re: magicand
2) it stresses me out to have to constantly have to "hold the line" on them pressing for the advantage out of game.

I swear they take turns calling me to "wear me down" etc.

</rant>

I know, I know, "Talk to your players and explain it to them. It's your game." etc. That's true, and I will talk to them. What I'm really wondering for you guys (and gals) is how you handle magic item values and buying/selling in your game? Is this kind of thing ever a problem for you? What do you find works for you?


Thanks.

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the best thing to do is take the DMG out of their hands. if they can create the item then maby MABY they have a chance to know what its worth. remember if the DMG is the Buy Price then the sell price is gonna usually be 1/2 or less. what I do is tell my PC's "if you open the DMG or MM I am gonna dock your xp. (hasent been a problem, this current group isnt a bunch of meta gammers and the only thing that they asked me if they could open up the MM for was the discription of the monsters summoned with the summon monster spell)