Interest in a Deck of Monster Cards?

InkwellIdeas · Oct 9, 2012

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I can cheat a few other things (spacing at the top, spacing between sections of the text block) and go one point size bigger on the font. Even just one point would be 16% bigger.

I've thought of using many more icons instead of text and have exactly the ones suggested (and arm for melee, a shield for AC, etc.) But I'd like more graphics/color on the back in some way. But one drawback is coming up with icons for a few things like spell resistance or damage resistance. A lighting bolt bouncing off a shield or a sword bouncing off a shield was the best we came up with, but to some degree each needs to be explainable. Maybe a single card that lists what each symbol means would help.

Not sure I want to break a creature across multiple cards... but I can see doing different cards for different versions of a creature.

I think the name on the front is pretty easy to cover in both examples. Just one name is longer, but they are in the same places and sizes.

Olaf the Stout · Oct 10, 2012

I'd possibly be interested. Price would be the make or break point. Are they going to be PDF or physical cards?

I already own these cards by the Game Mechanics. They are basically like your cards, but don't have the artwork on the back of them. The artwork certainly makes them cooler, but would it be enough to buy them when I already have a similar product? Maybe.

Olaf the Stout

InkwellIdeas · Oct 12, 2012

Thanks for the feedback so far...

I've been revising the layout and have a new sample:
http://www.inkwellideas.com/pf-sample2.pdf

I'd like to include more icons potentially. These are cribbed from an even earlier prototype version of the card backs, so they may look a little jaggedy. What do you think? Have better icon ideas? Ideas for icons of things that don't have icons yet? I'd also like to play with the font a bit as well still. I don't care for the font in bold, although I do think it makes sense to make keep the bolded items in a bold version of whatever font is chose. I will likely go back to the prior background texture.

In addition to the layout changes (more boxes) and icons, I had to abbreviate more spells names, feats, etc because the fixed size boxes needed some extra room. Also note it is all now 7pt font except the skills and languages. (I felt these were of less importance.)

BTW, I'm doing these samples as pathfinder because I felt that was a crunchy system and if I could fit all the info for that on the card back then I could fit most others as well. The actual survey leader for which system to make the card backs is "system neutral/generic info/knowledge check info". However, AD&D 1E/clone is #2 and it may be possible to combine those. D&D3.5 is tied at #2 and Pathfinder is #3, but the sample size is still pretty small.

the Jester · Oct 12, 2012

indyjoe said:
Thanks for the feedback so far...

I've been revising the layout and have a new sample:
http://www.inkwellideas.com/pf-sample2.pdf

Looks like, at least for the lich, you would still need the book to run an encounter.

I'd drop some details (f'rinstance, Hit Dice) in favor of "everything you need to run an encounter" level details on other things (grave touch- what does that do?).

InkwellIdeas · Oct 25, 2012

Latest updated versions:
http://www.inkwellideas.com/pf-sample3-noicons.pdf
http://www.inkwellideas.com/pf-sample3-wicons.pdf

What do you think of using icons to identify the sections on the back vs. just using labels (text)? The "w/icons" version only has some things as icons. Ideally I'd work with Keith (the artist who did them) to develop icons for the other boxes in the top section.

Also you can see how the overall set may have a few cards for some creatures, but they could be sort of chase cards in a way. The differences are the picture on the front is same creature but with different equipment and other slight changes & on the back there is a second version of the creature with stats for that specific creature. So if you just want a goblin card and stats any of the 4 will do, but if you're a completest or see the value of having different versions of the creature you can pick up all 4. Again, I'm still trying to figure out how to do this, if at all. (I may just do one goblin regardless or include all 4 in the base set.)

the Jester said:
Looks like, at least for the lich, you would still need the book to run an encounter.

I'd drop some details (f'rinstance, Hit Dice) in favor of "everything you need to run an encounter" level details on other things (grave touch- what does that do?).

Maybe drop the "Languages" section and "opposition schools" or make them 6 point. I'll try to iterate on it a bit more. The medusa does have the special abilities explained.

Treebore · Oct 25, 2012

They look good to me. Personally I am far more interested in "old school" stat blocks. So have you talked to publishers such as Frog God Games, who support Swords and Wizardry, or Expeditious Retreat Press, who supports OSRIC/1E to see about doing some kind of partnership to do card sets with them?

Heck, I primarily play Castles and Crusades, so you may want to also talk to Troll Lord Games about partnering with them as well.

The good thing for you is, with my playing Castles and Crusades, I can also use 3E/Pathfinder stat blocks, and even 4E stat blocks. Its just that I would prefer older stat blocks, since those are closer to what I am going to end up with anyways.

Could you at least offer up blank PDF cards, blank for the stats, but still have the art, where we can copy/paste our own text and get them printed out on our own card stock?

InkwellIdeas · Oct 26, 2012

Oh, I definitely plan to do other game systems depending on licensing.

Treebore · Oct 26, 2012

indyjoe said:
Oh, I definitely plan to do other game systems depending on licensing.

Well, OSRIC, etc... are easy, they are OGL, so all you have to do there is follow the OGL license for those monsters, same with 3E SRD monsters. The only one I mentioned you would have to get a "license" with is Troll Lords. As I understand it, they are pretty easy to get one with.

If you want to "partner" with Frog God or Expeditious Retreat, I understand they are pretty easy to work with as well.

Hopefully if you have already done inquiries, you are already seeing that to be the case.

Hrevelax · Oct 26, 2012

Treebore said:
I think for me to actually use these cards over my Monster books they would have to have a nice picture on one side, and ALL of the info I need on the other. Otherwise I will keep doing just fine with the book(s) and my mini's.

The price point is definitely going to be tricky, because if I decide it is too high, which is highly possible since I already have the info in books, as well as some form of mini, I won't buy them.

So its hard to say if I will even end up buying these, since I see their use beyond what I already own to be pretty marginal.

Everything he said. The cards would have to be something really special to get me to buy them. Especially since I'm not a guy with money to throw around or even money to get the books I want.

That aside, fitting all that info into such a small space is impressive! I dig the icons too. It reminds me of pixel icons in Japanese RPGs, which I like a lot. I understand that some stats are hard to represent this way because of their abstractedness and maybe you would need a card to explain these things.

I do like the idea about having creatures with different equipment and stats.

Maybe my problem with the idea is that outside of having a super compact reference, it as no other purpose. Is there a way to have the cards function with each other or in some other way? I'm thinking of a card game, but that's a whole different monster (PUN INTENDED).

I really don't like those goblins ha ha. The medusa is really great though. What about having the monsters separated from the backgrounds a bit? Like standing in front of a washed out scene?

InkwellIdeas · Oct 26, 2012

Hrevelax said:
Everything he said. The cards would have to be something really special to get me to buy them. Especially since I'm not a guy with money to throw around or even money to get the books I want.

For pricing, you see Paizo's card sets are about $12 for 50-55 cards. I think I can come in a little under that on a per card rate, although I'm not sure if i should break it up into 4-6 sets of 50 cards, 2-3 sets of 100 cards or just one big set. It gets tough to price the printing, buy the art, offset my time and keep the quality high.

If we break it up, each set would have 1-3 different types of creatures: outsiders, monstrous humanoids, undead, etc.

Hrevelax said:
That aside, fitting all that info into such a small space is impressive! I dig the icons too. It reminds me of pixel icons in Japanese RPGs, which I like a lot. I understand that some stats are hard to represent this way because of their abstractedness and maybe you would need a card to explain these things.

I do like the idea about having creatures with different equipment and stats.

Its tough. But I have kept almost all of it at 6.5pt. A few things that are less necessary (languages for example) are 6pt to give a little extra space. Also placing the labels half-under the text helps.

Hrevelax said:
Maybe my problem with the idea is that outside of having a super compact reference, it as no other purpose. Is there a way to have the cards function with each other or in some other way? I'm thinking of a card game, but that's a whole different monster (PUN INTENDED).

To me I just like them. I like the form factor better. I can lay them all out into 9-pocket pages and see a bunch at a time instead of 1-2 per page. And I can pull the cards of the creatures I'm using, but them on a 9-pock page or two and clip them to my DM screen.

Also of the cards will have art instead of just a few creatures have art like some books.

I think we'll also create a number of variant creatures. For example, in our current Kickstarter, the "Wood Golem" turned out to be more of a "Totem Golem". So maybe we'll develop a group of new creatures. And there are the variants already mentioned.

I've been thinking about a simple-ish game to include. But it runs into two problems:
-No more space to fit different stats.
-Both sides of the card give away what creature you're holding. (If you know any games/game mechanics where this doesn't matter, please let me know.)

Hrevelax said:
I really don't like those goblins ha ha. The medusa is really great though. What about having the monsters separated from the backgrounds a bit? Like standing in front of a washed out scene?

Wow, I love the goblins. But to each their own. I'm sure there will be a few different creatures each person will dislike. Hopefully everyone will like 90%. (It will just likely be a different 90%.)

Washing out the backgrounds would be easy to do if it becomes an issue. I can see that to a degree with the medusa. (That background was a separate piece and we might swap it out anyway.)