D&D 5E October Playtest Packet - Magic Items, Updated XP, Monster Traits

Fazza · Oct 9, 2012

I know giving these items out is down to the DM and all that but does nobody else have a problem with the Belt of Giant Kind? I would never hand out an item like that and struggle to see why they are there, even if the most common one is meant to be rare. Although I'd much rather an item be there that some people might want that I can rule out than to have to homebrew so I guess it's OK, but would people actually give these types of items to their players?

Jack99 · Oct 9, 2012

pauljathome said:
At least they got back to you this time .

Either they're staggering the updates or they've decided that my opinions aren't what they are looking for (too negative, I presume)

You do know that you do not need the mail to get the new playtest packet, right? You just go to the webpage and download it.

FireLance · Oct 9, 2012

Fazza said:
I know giving these items out is down to the DM and all that but does nobody else have a problem with the Belt of Giant Kind? I would never hand out an item like that and struggle to see why they are there, even if the most common one is meant to be rare. Although I'd much rather an item be there that some people might want that I can rule out than to have to homebrew so I guess it's OK, but would people actually give these types of items to their players?

Well, as I said in another thread:

Belts of Hill Giant Strength (Rare, Str 21) effectively grant a Strength modifier equal to the normal mortal maximum, and Belts of Stone Giant Strength or Frost Giant Strength (Very Rare, Str 23) allow you to exceed the normal limit by one point.

...

It seems to me that these are a number of ways to approach this:

1. Have magic items of only moderate power, so that the DM can give the PCs any items the players want without worrying that they are going to unbalance his game; or

2. Have magic items of great power, but leave it to the DM to decide how to manage this, possibly by: (a) giving the PCs whatever items the players want, and run the risk of unbalancing his game; (b) keeping the players ignorant of certain magic items so that they do not ask him for them; or (c) managing the players' expectations so that they understand that even though they may want their PCs to have certain items, the DM may or may not give them the chance to obtain them.

GX.Sigma · Oct 9, 2012

Fazza said:
I know giving these items out is down to the DM and all that but does nobody else have a problem with the Belt of Giant Kind? I would never hand out an item like that and struggle to see why they are there, even if the most common one is meant to be rare. Although I'd much rather an item be there that some people might want that I can rule out than to have to homebrew so I guess it's OK, but would people actually give these types of items to their players?

The Strength scores they offer go up to 29! Good thing ability scores are capped at 20 for PCs...

I would absolutely give these items to my players, and they absolutely belong in the game. D&D should have girdles of giant strength (though I don't fault them for using "belt" under the circumstances), and they should give characters giant strength.

Kobold Avenger · Oct 9, 2012

Belts of Giant Strength with the stats they have now are something I'm really against, as I'd prefer it if NO magic items gave stat bonuses.

Otherwise it feels like, well your hero (Fighter) can't be really heroic unless they have one of these belts. It really makes Belts of Giant Strength really feel like must have items, rather than something that's nice to have but not totally necessary. Which for me I just want all magic items to only be, nice to have.

Sadras · Oct 9, 2012

I haven't downloaded the playtest packet yet, but this dislike for the belts seems somewhat unfair and perhaps we have become to mechanically inclined.

- They're classic D&D magical items.
- You are not forced to use/have them in your campaign. Just like all the classes and races and such like.
- Many great story arcs can arise from these - soul of a giant trapped within one of these belts which the party seeks to release, maybe the belts lose their power under certain conditions (like when you spill giant blood), perhaps they are intelligent and there is great risk in attempting to use/wear one...etc
- And they are only must have items, if you thats how the DM runs his/her campaign
- They offer a complete set for Belts of Giant Strength (all the way up to 29)

I think people are too caught up in the numbers and stats to really see the creative value and use of these magical items. Yes, they're overpowered if utilised poorly, so is a character with maximum on every stat. Have we really lost the ability of imagination and creativity?

EDIT: We also have to keep in mind we do not have a precise idea of how things are going to be during the higher levels.

Chris_Nightwing · Oct 9, 2012

Have barely looked through anything, but I would rather the Belt of Giant Strength used an even number Strength score (so then each giant gets his own belt) and to prevent them being must-have items, the effect had better be limited in some way. So either for five minutes once a day, or for a single round until you take a short rest. Now if only there were stamina points or something better than combat dice, you could exhaust one to have super strength for a round.

Ultimatecalibur · Oct 9, 2012

Kobold Avenger said:
Belts of Giant Strength with the stats they have now are something I'm really against, as I'd prefer it if NO magic items gave stat bonuses.

Otherwise it feels like, well your hero (Fighter) can't be really heroic unless they have one of these belts. It really makes Belts of Giant Strength really feel like must have items, rather than something that's nice to have but not totally necessary. Which for me I just want all magic items to only be, nice to have.

As long as the design team keeps the target numbers within a certain range they are not must haves just really really nice. The kind of nice that has a rumor of one being somewhere getting a group of PCs to drop everything and chase after it.

Falling Icicle · Oct 9, 2012

Chris_Nightwing said:
Have barely looked through anything, but I would rather the Belt of Giant Strength used an even number Strength score (so then each giant gets his own belt) and to prevent them being must-have items, the effect had better be limited in some way. So either for five minutes once a day, or for a single round until you take a short rest. Now if only there were stamina points or something better than combat dice, you could exhaust one to have super strength for a round.

I agree that they should have some kind of balancing limitation. One option, as you said, is to limit how often they can be used. Another option is to have the increased Strength apply to feats of strength and lifting/carrying capacity but not apply to attack and damage rolls.

Another problem I have with the belts is that they reward players for stat dumping. A character with a Str of 8 gets his Str score boosted to 29, just as a person with an 18 Str does. If they're going to have indefinite duration stat-boosting items in the game, then they at least should make them give a +bonus, instead of increasing the stat to a set value regardless of what the person's stat is without the item. That said, I'd rather they not have stat-boosting items at all in this edition.

[Edit] As I said in the other thread, the biggest problem with the belts is that they offer such an enormous bonus to hit and damage. The mightiest enchanted sword gives a +3 bonus, but you can put on this belt and get +5 to +11 (depending on what your Str score was before putting on the belt, assuming the typical range of 8-18 for PCs). That takes the entire bounded accuracy thing they're going for in this edition and kills it dead.

GX.Sigma · Oct 9, 2012

Falling Icicle said:
Another problem I have with the belts is that they reward players for stat dumping. A character with a Str of 8 gets his Str score boosted to 29, just as a person with an 18 Str does. If they're going to have indefinite duration stat-boosting items in the game, then they at least should make them give a +bonus, instead of increasing the stat to a set value regardless of what the person's stat is without the item. That said, I'd rather they not have stat-boosting items at all in this edition.

If a character has 8 strength, they clearly don't care about having a high strength; so why would they be wearing the Belt of Storm Giant Strength (a unique artifact of which only one exists in the entire world)? The static 29 is actually better than a plus, because a plus will have more benefit for someone with a higher strength score--it would encourage min-maxing.

A more pertinent example is the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which set your strength to 19. This is basically useless to a fighter, but might be very interesting for a wizard.

As I said in the other thread, the biggest problem with the belts is that they offer such an enormous bonus to hit and damage. The mightiest enchanted sword gives a +3 bonus, but you can put on this belt and get +5 to +11 (depending on what your Str score was before putting on the belt, assuming the typical range of 8-18 for PCs). That takes the entire bounded accuracy thing they're going for in this edition and kills it dead.

The whole point of bounded accuracy is that magic items are strictly an improvement, and thus a reward, for PCs. If you think +5 to strength checks is overpowered, wait til you see the other artifacts. I'm betting one of them is a sword that's better than the mightiest 'legendary' sword, and I'm betting that's nothing compared to the Deck of Many Things and the Eye of Vecna.

I cannot disagree more with those who dislike the Belts of Giant Strength. The whole point of the DM-empowerment approach is that these items can feel free to be what they are (i.e., a belt of giant strength gives you the strength of a giant, because that's what a belt of giant strength does). If you don't want your players to have powerful magic items, don't give them powerful magic items.