D&D 5E Oct playtest magic items are legend---wait for it--ary!

Jeff Carlsen · Oct 9, 2012

thewok said:
I'm just worried what the introduction of these items will do to the bounded accuracy.

These items destroy bounded accuracy. They're entirely unbalanced. In fact, most of the magic items are. That's the point. It's what makes them so magical.

If I introduced a Belt of Storm Giant Strength, it would be worn by the evil warlord who threatens the world. You would have to defeat him to get it, and that at the end of a major campaign. The players would get to play with it for a little while, and then the game would be over.

If we did keep playing, I would make the party the target of every would be assassin who wants the belt. It would become a major plot point, and eventually the players would likely give it away or destroy it.

I think I would rather the belts affect saving throws, carrying capacity, ability/skill checks, and so on, but leave bonuses to attack and damage squarely in the camp of weapons.

I would never be happy with a magic item that made you stronger but didn't actually make you stronger.

Because magic items aren't part of the math, the only truly balanced option is not to have magic items. Although, you can, with a little forethought, keep things mostly balanced if that's what you're concerned about. Then, on occasion, you should introduce something campaign shattering.

Falcon42 · Oct 9, 2012

Agreed on the % chances for armor and such.

Lwaxy · Oct 9, 2012

Not happy with the charge rules of staff and wands. I'd definitely house rule that.

tlantl · Oct 9, 2012

Olgar Shiverstone said:
If this were 1E, with 10th level "name level", I'd agree ... otherwise, I think it's 2-4X more magic items than I'd like to see given the assumed economy (or lack there of).

The way the devs have been talking 10th level is where the game changes much like it did in AD&D, so by this thinking tenth level is "name" level in Next.

The information they've shared so far indicates tha the majority of campaigns usually end in this level range. I know for me 3e and pathfinder fall flat at 8th level. I haven't played past those levels yet.

Characters get too complicated combat takes hours and the power structure makes the mundane world around you either meaningless or you need to make the player's feel impotent until they catch up with the "normal" people that live there.

And, since the game doesn't assume your players are going to have any magic at all, you could just ignore the suggested lists and give out stuff as you feel fit. Me, I like rolling my dice while I'm building a dungeon so having useful lists is a bonus for me.

GreyICE · Oct 9, 2012

tlantl said:
The way the devs have been talking 10th level is where the game changes much like it did in AD&D, so by this thinking tenth level is "name" level in Next.

Or in 4E~

I actually would not be surprised with Paragon Paths or something very similar making a return. They were always a very cool idea.

Steely_Dan · Oct 9, 2012

Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but:

1) Are characters still limited to a max of 20 in ability scores, or with a belt of giant strength can they actually have a 29 Str?

2) I thought the Giant strengths were going back to 1st Ed values (Hill = 19, Stone = 20, Frost = 21, Fire = 22, Cloud = 23, Storm = 24), have they changed that?

Jack99 · Oct 9, 2012

Steely_Dan said:
Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but:

1) Are characters still limited to a max of 20 in ability scores, or with a belt of giant strength can they actually have a 29 Str?

2) I thought the Giant strengths were going back to 1st Ed values (Hill = 19, Stone = 20, Frost = 21, Fire = 22, Cloud = 23, Storm = 24), have they changed that?

1) 20 was the natural limit.
2) Assumption afaik

Steely_Dan · Oct 9, 2012

I really like in the Flametongue description they make reference to The Queen of Chaos and the Wind Dukes of Aqaa, and in the Plate of Etherealness to the Dao (khan), I see a a lot of classic lore returning in 5th Ed, nice.

Raith5 · Oct 9, 2012

tlantl said:
The way the devs have been talking 10th level is where the game changes much like it did in AD&D, so by this thinking tenth level is "name" level in Next.

The information they've shared so far indicates tha the majority of campaigns usually end in this level range. I know for me 3e and pathfinder fall flat at 8th level. I haven't played past those levels yet.

They were pretty explicit about this in the Gencon videos. They said they are focusing the game on up to 10th.

But I think they are in a self fulfilling prophecy - basically they said at Gencon: D&D traditionally only really works levels 1 -10 so we are going to only do that. Rather than try to stretch it out as 4th ed did rather well. The sweet spot issue is being assumed away by bounded accuracy it seems.

The problem I see is that nothing much is going to be left after 10th. If vorpal swords/holy avengers are available after 9th and artifacts after 11th (vorpal swords/holy avengers were 30th and 25th level items in 4th). It just seems to ridiculously condensed - even more so that AD&D. As someone who has tried and enjoyed high level play over the editions I think this is silly.

Balesir · Oct 9, 2012

Oh, dear - it looks like magic items are back to being nothing but sweeties for the GM to hand out to good little boys and girls... Ho, hum - I don't think I'm the intended audience for "default" style DDN, and nothing for any other style has come out, yet.

Truename said:
Or, to put it another way, by the end of your first ten levels, your average PC will have found:

25 common items

6 or 7 uncommon items

1 rare item

1 very rare item in the entire party

and maybe, maybe, if you're lucky, one legendary item in the entire party

Truename said:
I did the math on tough encounters, too. If you fight nothing but tough encounters for ten levels, in a four-person party, you'll have found this much by the end of the tenth level:

22 common items

8 or 9 uncommon items

4 rare items

1 very rare item

1 legendary item in the entire party

and maybe, if you're lucky, one artifact in the entire party

OK, now here I see a real oddity.

The categories of "Easy", "Tough" and so on relate to levels; in other words, what is a "tough" encounter for a party of 1st level characters is an "easy" encounter for a 3rd level party. Items don't have a level - they are just "common" or "rare" or "awesomesauce" or whatever - but they are allocated depending whether an encounter was "easy", "average" or "tough"?? Where does that leave "sandbox" campaigns? Tackling a load of "tough" encounters apparently leads to more "rare", "very rare" and "legendary" items - but those exact same encounters tackled a couple of levels later would be "easy". Would they, then, net the same haul of "rare", "very rare" and "legendary" items, or not??

D&D 5E Oct playtest magic items are legend---wait for it--ary!

Jeff Carlsen

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