D&D 5E Dissapointed with Attunement

ZombieRoboNinja · Oct 9, 2012

The experimental charisma limit on attuned items sounds cool but also like it would have a potentially huge impact on class balance. Specifically, Int and Cha are both equally useless stats aside from skills, whereas Wis is very important for Perception and for saves against spells. This change would make Cha relevant for everyone again, which is good - but it would also mean sorcerers and bards can attune way more magical items than wizards, which makes little sense to me.

This would make almost no difference on a low-magic game, but in a high-magic game it could be huge.

Olgar Shiverstone · Oct 10, 2012

Well, just change it to concentrate ten minutes and sacrifice a kitten, then.

Kinak · Oct 10, 2012

I, for one, really like the limited attunements. I don't think "concentrate for ten minutes" is the perfect solution, but I can easily add fluff requirements for attunement as long as the game balance factors in the appropriate number of magical items.

Cheers!
Kinak

Tony Vargas · Oct 10, 2012

Jeff Carlsen said:
When I read about attunement in Legends & Lore, it sounded awesome. Some magic items would have secret abilities, and the right person, who performed the right ritual or sacrifice, could bond with that magical item and unlock it's mysteries.

I also liked the sound of attunement. I liked it when I first saw it in RuneQuest 30 years ago, and I still think it's a good idea. Makes magic items seem that bit more magical, and makes more sense of cursed items, as well.

Honestly, even attunement as presented - just a little quality time spent with the item - would be an improvement over D&D's long tradition of magic items being near as fungible as mass-produced gear.

Instead, it's just a ten minute period of concentration to prevent swapping items. This is a seriously missed opportunity.

Heh. I agree. 10 min is too specific (and probably too short). It's too short compared to the time it takes to swap spells or heal up.

It's too specific for 5e's stated goal of supporting a breadth of play styles. Like spell memorization, healing, and a wealth of other things, the 'time' (or circumstance) to swap attuned items should be on some sort of 'dial,' so that slow-paced campaigns don't suffer from every encounter using customized item sets, and fast-paced ones still let you swap out an item now and then.

Some items might have multiple levels of attunement, requiring greater and more dramatic sacrifices.

Or some sort of tracking, like 4e concordance or AD&D ego.

FireLance · Oct 10, 2012

ZombieRoboNinja said:
The experimental charisma limit on attuned items sounds cool but also like it would have a potentially huge impact on class balance. Specifically, Int and Cha are both equally useless stats aside from skills, whereas Wis is very important for Perception and for saves against spells. This change would make Cha relevant for everyone again, which is good - but it would also mean sorcerers and bards can attune way more magical items than wizards, which makes little sense to me.

This would make almost no difference on a low-magic game, but in a high-magic game it could be huge.

At the cost of a bit more complexity, I can see class features or feats that allow you to change the ability score you use for determining the maximum number of attuned items. A wizard might be able to use Intelligence, for example, or a cleric could use Wisdom for items that draw on divine magic.

pemerton · Oct 10, 2012

Attunement reminds me of the mooted rule for 4e, before it was released, that a character cannot use rings until paragon tier, and cannont use two rings until epic tier.

Anyway, I can't quite follow its logic: it seems that every weapon better than +1 requires attunement, except for the Staff of Striking - why the exception?

Both Ring of Feather Falling and Ring of Water Walking enhance movement/exploration abilities - but only the latter requires attunement, while the former just has a greater rarerity listing. Why?

Attunement is also used as a substitute for the old class-based usage requirements for wands and staves. Which is fine, I guess, except for some weirdness, like Druids are better at using wands and staves than Warlocks or Sorcerers. Where's the logic in that? And why aren't scrolls handled in the same way?

Jester David · Oct 10, 2012

Jeff Carlsen said:
When I read about attunement in Legends & Lore, it sounded awesome. Some magic items would have secret abilities, and the right person, who performed the right ritual or sacrifice, could bond with that magical item and unlock it's mysteries.

Instead, it's just a ten minute period of concentration to prevent swapping items. This is a seriously missed opportunity.

Each of these items should have an attunement section that describes the specific method of attuning that item to you and the benefits it grants. Some items might have multiple levels of attunement, requiring greater and more dramatic sacrifices.

I totally agree. But I want them to test the baseline first, which is what we're doing. They can add the coolness later.

Crazy Jerome · Oct 10, 2012

Instead of a flat limit, vary the time and sacrifices required as more items are attuned. Then you must make a Cha check after the interval, rather than it being a flat limit on numbers. Also move up the chart for more rare items, down for sacrifices.

Perhaps:

1 minute
5 minutes
10 minutes
20 minutes
1 hour
3 hours
6 hours
12 hours
1 day
3 days
1 week
2 weeks
1 month
1 season
1 year

Each item is worth a number of spots on the chart based on rarity: 1 for common, 2 for uncommon, 3 for rare, 4 for very rare, 5 for legendary, and 6 for artifacts. Find the value for all the items to which you are currently attuned, and also the item to which you want to attune. That's how long it takes before you can make the check. (You can do other things in the meantime.

)

So Joe the Fighter finds a very rare sword (4). He already is attuned to two common items (1 each) and one uncommon item (2). 4+2+2=8, or 12 hours to make an attunment check.

Sacrifices would be some nasty chart of guidelines, occasionally with hints in the particular items (of Vecna), that subtract from this number. The maximum on the chart is 15. So once you get to over that on an attunement check, you must make sacrifices to lower it.

This explains why a farm boy can pick up a legendary sword and have it recognize him by lunch, even if he isn't particularly charismatic (a check every hour, with no other attunements), but a hero with lots of equipment has to really work at it. If you don't like this particular feature, include a modifier by level (down the chart, so that a 10th level character attunes far more easily).

A high charisma doesn't give you more items. It does let you get to your natural maximum with less hassle.

Libramarian · Oct 10, 2012

I don't mind it. The delay is not meant to be consequential; it's just a rule so PCs can only have 3 magic items. They're overcompensating a bit on flavor in general, presumably in response to criticisms of the last edition.

Falling Icicle · Oct 10, 2012

I like the idea of attunement, but I don't like the current implementation of it. One idea I've had is that maybe you have to spend a hit die to attune to an item, representing an investment of life force, willpower, soul energy or whatever else you want to call it. This would help prevent players from keeping a golf bag of wands and staffs and switching them throughout the day to have a vast arsenal of daily spells, for example. Or at least, if they do so, they are paying a cost for it.

Items could even have specific attunement costs, such as requiring the character to:

- sacrifice a hit die, which he can't recover as long as he remains attuned to the item.

- sacrifice spell slots or their equivalent each day to power the item.

- perform a ritual costing a certain amount of gp worth of components, or maybe even rare components that can't normally be bought and have to be obtained from quests. Some items could require a special ritual which can only be done under certain conditions (i.e. under the light of a full moon, with the blessing of a priest of a particular god, etc.)

- complete a special quest to attune to the item. A paladin might need to prove to a holy avenger that he is truly worthy to wield it by completing a special trial, for example. Once completed, the character can attune to the item any time thereafter.