D&D 5E PCs Making Their Own Magic Items

Ed_Laprade said:

In the perfect D&D world there would be other things the non-casters could get XP for that the casters couldn't, but yeah, that's a problem. (Rogues should be able to get some for stealing, for ex.) Maybe just a really small amount could be awarded to show that they're actually doing something constructive, rather than penalizing them for it.

IMHO having magic item creation cost a lot of time or money ought to keep the magic mart problem under control. The occasional townie wizard might have an item or two for sale, but that doesn't mean it'd be something the characters wanted. To be sure they got what they wanted they'd either have to wait til it was ready, pony up a lot of cash, or go questing for the right ingrediants to speed up the process.

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I usually set up specific NPCs in an area who are available for the players to commission magical items. Sometimes I have the player or group do some little adventure for him or her to bring back certain materials used in the creation process. I don't make them wait for the stuff once they r turn though since the item may have been on hand or the materials to make the stuff was already in his possession while having the party go find the stuff was only to replenish the guy's inventory.

I used this method in 3e since the players wanted nothing to do with wasting feats on item creation and no one played an actual wizard.

Balesir said:

To say that "you must quest for these ingredients yourself, they are not available to buy" implies that, if they manage to get hold of the ingredients but don't want the item any more, they cannot sell them. That, in turn, implies that there are no NPCs interested in the aforementioned items, which seems very dubious, to me.

In short, then, it seems to me that not only everyone, but also everything has its price. Best, then, to simply give estimates for how much money is required to make those items that can possibly be made.

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I don't think this is necessarily the case. The fact that one party makes is willing to sell a good does not make that good "available" on the market. There have to be a certain amount of these goods to make them "marketable." Therefore, if the item is rare or very rare, there may, in fact, be one for sale somewhere, but that's far from there being an open market for it.

Obryn said:

One of my two choices was "quest based" but I think I am changing my mind. In theory, it's another thing that sounds awesome. In practice, I've become unsure...

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I agree that quests for items sounds unfun. The only other solution is to have an opportunity cost for making the item, which requires creating other opportunities that have benefits of similar value.

One way to implement this cost is to have magic items cost a feat (or similar resource) to attune the item. This would dramatically reduce the number of magic items players look for. Otherwise, items found are one-shot items.

blalien said:

The advantage of this system is that the players will get the magic items they want...eventually. The DM does not have to go out of their way to provide the items they want or write mini quests for them. Attentive players will know to harvest monsters for ingredients, and every few adventures the players will have enough ingredients to craft a new item, even if it's not the specific item they wanted. A player who really wants a specific item can wait and call dibs whenever an ingredient they want comes up, and they'll get that item sooner than if they waited for it to appear on a random treasure table.

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You accumulate a resource, and when you have enough of it you trade it in for the item. I use this system in 4e to preserve normal currency economies in their natural state: players get components instead of cash, so they can only really use it to make items and can't wreck economies without substantial effort.

Magic item creation is a prefect example of a module.

The purpose behind questing for magic items is to make magic item creation something that exists within the world, but that PCs rarely do without explicit need. When they do, it's a big deal. It's similar to "PCs can't make magic items," but in less absolute terms so that the setting makes sense.

If the component you need for an acid sword is a green dragon scale, given freely, then you have a solid explanation as to why acid swords are rare, expensive, and very difficult to make.

As for buying and selling magic items, It's not so much that there is no market for them. Instead, it's similar to the market for classic sports cars. Only a small percentage of the population has the spare funds to buy one. Of course, you could always sell your classic Ferrari for $3000, but you can get significantly more from the right buyer.

So the rich and powerful within a society have magic items. That would be royalty, nobility, knights, adventurers, wealthy merchants, clergy, tribal chiefs, etc. I imagine that there are events in major cities where these people gather to buy, sell, and trade expensive wares. I'm sure there are some merchants that do the same.

But, in order for magic items to be this kind of rare, they must be difficult to make and require rare components. You probably can sell those components, because they're in demand by anyone who does craft, but good luck buying them.

That's why you can't just convert rare components to GP. You have to find those components, or hire someone to find them for you. At minimum, that will add a randomly determined amount of time to the crafting, and includes the risk that those you hired will run off with the money or die in the attempt.

Regardless, the rare component system is also the method for modularity. If each item has a rare component as part of its construction requirement, then the DM can easily choose how vibrant the component market is in their setting. All that would require is an optional "component price" chart.

I don't think the quests have to take very long or even (depending on the DM and the campaign) be on-camera. If the players discover a potion recipe that requires some fairly common herbs, there's nothing wrong with letting them take a day or two of downtime to gather them. Or even pay some other adventurers to do it. Those sidequests come from somewhere after all.

You can also "start" the quest half-done. The classic example is after fighting something like a displacer beast. "Oh, their hide is often used to create cloaks of displacement!" So the party can either track down the ritual and other ingredients or sell the hides off.

"Quest" doesn't need to mean "Epic Quest" except when you're talking about epic items. But it makes items more magical and drives stories all the way down to the local herbalist paying a couple gold for certain mushrooms.

Cheers!
Kinak

I don't mind PCs making magic items. It should be time-consuming and expensive (on many levels), but it should be possible.

The way I do it in my games: potions and scrolls can be created from ingredients bought at the local apothecary or library...the PC only needs to spend money and time on these items. Other items, like swords and wands, also require the character to gather rare ingredients that can't be purchased in a shop (you want to make a holy sword? You'll need the tears of an angel.) And very powerful items, like a staff of power, might require several quests to find all of the ingredients and ancient knowledge.

I'm not a fan of requiring feats for it, though. I condense all of the item creation feats into a single one (Craft Magic Items), and call it good.

I don't like to use a standard formula for making magic items, or a specific or standard path for them. I like magic items to be unique...ALL magic items. So when a player wants to make one, it's a unique experience. I base the requirements on the specifics of the item they want. Some materials may require a quest, others won't. Some can simply be bought, others must be aquired. Standard spells can be used, but research is required to adapt them to the unique creation they are making (study and time). And above all, I make the creation a story in itself. Once the players character has the magic item in hand, it's a special item...one that took time, effort, and creativity, and comes replete with an indepth backstory (like the legend and lore on some D&D magic items). I feel that in the end, this makes for a much more rewarding experience, and an item they aren't just going to trade up when the next big thing comes along.

Obryn said:

Inherent bonuses. Use them. Love them. Feel the freedom. Decide you're never running 4e without them again.

-O

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I do like the inherent bonus rules, but the DM didn't want to use them. Also, a lot of good items don't become available until paragon tier.

Ferghis said:

I don't think this is necessarily the case. The fact that one party makes is willing to sell a good does not make that good "available" on the market. There have to be a certain amount of these goods to make them "marketable." Therefore, if the item is rare or very rare, there may, in fact, be one for sale somewhere, but that's far from there being an open market for it.

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When I say "available to buy" I don't necessarily mean that there will be a handy stall in every town - I mean that someone, somewhere will have items and materials to sell for the "right" price. It might require some effort (some sort of Skill Challenge, most likely), but there will be some of what you want available to buy. Unless it just cannot be made - in which case you can forget random "treasure tables" as something that is just residue from ages past will be too rare (or already found and in use) for those.

Ferghis said:

You accumulate a resource, and when you have enough of it you trade it in for the item. I use this system in 4e to preserve normal currency economies in their natural state: players get components instead of cash, so they can only really use it to make items and can't wreck economies without substantial effort.

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Using a "currency" other than gold for magic items is definitely an interesting idea. I don't think it's necessary to preserve the monetary system - magic items are indivisible large purchases anyway so that their rarity and the incentives to gamble life and limb for them is already plausible - but the generally assumed commonness of consumable items and ritual use is more likely to actually manifest if permanent items require something other than gold.

I have seriously considered using "residuum" in 4E in this way; permanent items need residuum to their full value to create, as well as gold for the ritual recipe, and the Disenchant ritual yields 100% of the residuum from the item (so no residuum is ever lost or created). Substitutes for "residuum" such as Ars Magica's "vis" and so on could be envisaged. Such residuum or vis will still be purchasable, but at a price that can be set on a campaign-by-campaign basis to suit the "feel" and magic item rarity desired. This mechanism essentially allows magic items to be moderated in the game world separately from the monetary system.

Balesir said:

When I say "available to buy" I don't necessarily mean that there will be a handy stall in every town - I mean that someone, somewhere will have items and materials to sell for the "right" price. It might require some effort (some sort of Skill Challenge, most likely), but there will be some of what you want available to buy. Unless it just cannot be made - in which case you can forget random "treasure tables" as something that is just residue from ages past will be too rare (or already found and in use) for those.

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I'd say that if it takes some significant effort to locate, it counts as a quest (whether it be easy or difficult). Not that this is necessarily a bad thing: I voted for quests in the above poll.

However, Obryn's post made re-think the effectiveness of making quests the default manner of obtaining specific magic items. And I don't like the notion of paying for items in xp. At the moment, I think the best way to deal with items is some limit a character's item "slots," even for consumables.