Playing with a new style [Update - switching to it on 12 Nov]

**Dice4Hire** · 14th November 2012, 10:11 PM

I would second the request that the menus open on a click not a hover.

**tomBitonti** · 14th November 2012, 11:50 PM

Umm, not sure if I'm from Mars on this or what, but I really don't like the new layout. Don't really mean to be a negative nanny, but ...

Putting the main navigation menu next to advertiser content seems a bit rude.

Putting the pop-up menus over that advertiser content makes it worse.

Buying a small amount of real estate by shrinking a main navigation section doesn't seem to be a bargain. I want the main navigation to be clearly visible. I don't know if within the available technology, but what would be preferable would be to start larger and to have an option to shrink it or relocate it.

Black/dark grey/white is harder to read than necessary (and seems to violate usability standards). Especially next to an area likely to be very busy and bright.

Thx!

TomB

**Morrus** · 15th November 2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by tomBitonti

Putting the main navigation menu next to advertiser content seems a bit rude.

Putting the pop-up menus over that advertiser content makes it worse.

That seems to average out to me! Those complaints, to my mind, cancel each other out. But still, there is no attempt on my part to be rude to you (there might be a mild attempt to be erotic to you, though - is it working?)

The header size has been a major and repeated complaint for years. Folks with lower-res browsers saw nothing but header. That extra inch to you is a world of difference to many other users. This may be part of the eroticism I mentioned earlier.

Hey, I have a ginormous monitor and view the site at very high res. I struggle to understand when people complain about real estate on a screen which looks wide, empty, desolate, and spread-out to me. I have to remember that not everybody views the site on my computer.

Black/dark grey/white is harder to read than necessary

You understand that's been the site's colours since 2000, right? It's a little late to be complaining about the colour scheme! It was presumably that colour when you got here in 2003. Why wait nine years to bring it up?

**fba827** · 15th November 2012, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Morrus

I'm not trying to be disagreeable - but the previous menu said "Settings", too. We've used "Settings" in menus here now for a period of time measured in years. This particular thing isn't a change!

I could prove it by switching back to the menu you've been using for the last few years up until this week. That one says "Settings", too!

I fully realized that fact after I made my prior post.

I guess just that since that it was in one place before i was just mindlessly clicking on it, but now that i had to hunt around for it i was looking for something that said "User Control Panel" since that is what the page is called when you go to it.

Anyway, no big deal. Just a matter of relearning where the link is so that I can mindlessly click on it there instead

**Sammael** · 15th November 2012, 07:09 AM

I have two issues at this time:

1. The navigation bar is not always in the top right corner for me. It switches between that position and being vertically centered on the right side. Now, it's possible that has something to do with AdBlock, but I am currently still a community supporter (at least my tag says so), so ads shouldn't be loading for me anyway. Not a big deal in any case.

2. Cascading menus are rarely a good thing on the web, so I'd avoid them if I were you. They work differently on different platforms, hover behavior can be strange, and they often open on top of one another in unexpected ways. The RPG Books sub-menu one under Things We Make can be easily integrated into the top menu since it doesn't have too many items. D&D Collector guides should just link to the forum post which indexes all the categories. Messageboards one can also be integrated into the top menu, since we only have 10 subforums at this time.

**tomBitonti** · 15th November 2012, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Morrus

That seems to average out to me! Those complaints, to my mind, cancel each other out. But still, there is no attempt on my part to be rude to you (there might be a mild attempt to be erotic to you, though - is it working?)

The header size has been a major and repeated complaint for years. Folks with lower-res browsers saw nothing but header. That extra inch to you is a world of difference to many other users. This may be part of the eroticism I mentioned earlier.

Hey, I have a ginormous monitor and view the site at very high res. I struggle to understand when people complain about real estate on a screen which looks wide, empty, desolate, and spread-out to me. I have to remember that not everybody views the site on my computer.

You understand that's been the site's colours since 2000, right? It's a little late to be complaining about the colour scheme! It was presumably that colour when you got here in 2003. Why wait nine years to bring it up?

Having posted, and thought about my post a bit, I do think my presentation was a little harsh. But, I still have trouble with the new layout. I don't think I can remove the actual critique, but I can try to explain a little better.

"Rude" was not meant in any technically specifically way. That was to convey a level of distaste. When I look to the new menu, my eyes are forced to travel across an ad. Looking at the current ad, the text "TV ON YOUR TERMS" is in a large and easy to read font that draws my eyes. The rather small and blockish font of the menus is hard to pick out. I'm finding that ad intrusion into a basic and often used function to be rather annoying. Like a door-to-door salesman who won't let you close the door.

About the colors ... white on black I'm used to. The menu uses a different shade for the background, a slightly lighter shade of grey. The menu font is smallish. (Maybe 60% of the posting text?) The combination of lessened contrast and small font make for text that is hard for me to read.

Anyways, thanks for the reply! Great that your are trying new layouts. One of the costs of learning is trying new stuff out. Though, I still don't like the current layout.

Thx!

TomB

**delericho** · 15th November 2012, 08:38 AM

Something seems to have changed overnight, so now the "Child of Black" scheme doesn't work again. I mean, I can select it and all, but all the text in the menus and such stays white. Which isn't terribly useful on a white background.

Oh, I also checked the "Hide in Shadows" scheme, and it has the same problem.

Obviously, I've reverted back to "New Style" in the meantime.

**steeldragons** · 15th November 2012, 11:45 AM

Coupla observations and friendly suggestions.

1: Love the new menu bar and the hover-over drop downs. Nice job.

2: Is there a reason for the "grey" background of the menu? I'm not seeing why it shouldn't match the background of the rest of the header.

3: I really dislike the positioning. I get that you're playing around with the vertical space, but even just putting the menu below the ad space would be worlds of an improvement to my (graphically disposed designer) eyes. Some kind of space for between them too. And , again, I get that you want to minimize the vertical space of the header, but having the menu (especially on top) slapped right along the ad is....visually confusing and (to place a subjective judgement on it) just bad...though I'm sure your advertisers are very pleased with all the attention going straight to their ad immediately whenever you need the menu.

3a: Also not 100% on why the menu (or the ad for that matter) are justified to the right and not centered or placed, statically, immediately next to the E.N. World logo. I don't see the benefit of that and personally think you would want the menu front and center at all times as opposed to floating around.

That's all I see right now. Now some coffee.
Cheers n' have a good day.
--SD
But I do implore you to, at least, put the menu below the ad.

**Morrus** · 15th November 2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by steeldragons

3a: Also not 100% on why the menu (or the ad for that matter) are justified to the right and not centered or placed, statically, immediately next to the E.N. World logo. I don't see the benefit of that and personally think you would want the menu front and center at all times as opposed to floating around.

I've been moving it about - it was to the left yesterday, and lower down earlier, too. I find myself quite liking it being right-aligned, though, for some reason - my eyes seem to go to it more easily. I did try centering it, but I really felt it made the header look messy and crowded there.

My favourite but is the menu of links to Echohawk's collectors' guides in the REFERENCE section. I actually spend time just hovering and unhovering over that bit for fun! (I don't know what that says about me....)

**CAFRedblade** · 15th November 2012, 03:37 PM

I think I'd prefer the menu below the ad. The current placement may lead to accidental clicks on the ad banner, which usually only frustrates users.

Small debug, the down arrow on the 'Things we make' disappears on hover which I think is unintentional, as the ones on the other menu options do not do the same.

Otherwise, I'm liking everything with the smaller condensed menu bar.

I kinda liked the placement yesterday where it was below the logo/advert area. The menu bar background could stretch fully across to keep it consistent.