D&D 5th Edition Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option





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  1. #1
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    Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option

    Just a little thought experiment: if we rolled these classes together, what might it look like?

    Some ideas:
    Basic Warlord-as-Fighter
    1. Ability Adjustment: Add Int, Wis, or Cha to the options. Fighters may need intelligence for brilliant tactical maneuvers, Wisdom to read their opponents, and Charisma to inspire their allies.
    2. Add the "Commander" Fighting Style for those who want an easy pre-packaged set of abilities.
    3. Add the following Maneuvers: Inspiring Words, Commanding Shout, Tactical Instructions.
    4. Design Notes: Healing Specialist specialty would help a "warlord-style" PC keep the party recharged with healing potions and whatnot. Noble background gives them Persuade and other relevant skills. High price of big heavy armors keeps them out of reach of low-level PC's, and a warlord never really has to worry about getting it. The mix-n-match nature of maneuvers lets you pretty easily build an archer-warlord as well. Regardless, the commander here is quite good at range. There are a LOT of effects in current maneuvers that, if a fighter could just use them on an ally who could hear them (and perhaps slightly reduced effectiveness in exchange for the range), would be amazing.


    Fighting Style: Commander
    You are an inspiring force on the battlefield, capable of helping your allies to get the most out of their attacks and defenses. You focus on using your expertise dice on your allies, rather than on yourself.

    Suggested Background: Noble
    Suggested Specialty: Healing Specialist
    Suggested Equipment: Chainmail, shield, longsword, 4 javelins, adventurer's kit, and 39 gp.

    Level - Maneuver
    1 - Inspiring Words
    2 - Protect
    4 - Commanding Shout
    8 - Danger Sense
    10 - Tactical Instructions

    Maneuver: Inspiring Words
    When an ally is down, you can get them back up with a courageous shout.
    Effect: When an ally who can hear you takes enough damage to fall unconscious, you can use a reaction to reduce the damage your ally takes. Roll all the expertise dice you spend, add up their results, and reduce the damage by that total. If the damage drops to 0, the hit becomes a miss.

    Maneuver: Commanding Shout
    You can order an ally to attack in your stead.
    Effect: As an action, you can allow an ally who can hear you you to make a melee weapon attack against a target of your choice. If they do, roll all the expertise dice you spend, and add up their results. Your ally's damage roll gains a bonus equal to that total.

    Maneuver: Tactical Instructions
    You can ask an ally to make one small adjustment...
    Effect: Just before you make an melee weapon attack, you can allow an ally who can hear you you to move up to 5 feet. If they do, and the target of your attack is within their reach at the end of their move, roll all the expertise dice you spend, and add take the highest result. Your attack gains an attack bonus equal to that result.

    Basic Assassin-As-Rogue
    1. Ability Adjustment: Add Cha to the options. Rogues may use trickery, deceit, or suavity as their main tools.
    2. Add the "Assassin" Scheme for those who want an easy pre-packaged set of abilities.
    3. Add the following Maneuvers: Surprise Strike
    4. Clarified the Profession skill: It should probably let you create items that your profession would be skilled at creating (in this case, poison).
    5. Design Notes: The Surprise Strike maneuver gets you the major thing. Aside from that, the Disguise skill that already existed is useful, but it could hypothetically be rolled into Bluff. Having a more specific skill list clearly hurts skill-specialists, since they're less likely to "have" the right skill (not that it stops them from using an ability check, just that they have trouble advocating for their relevant bonus). There already is a "basic poison," and hypothetically, higher-level, more-virulent poisons could exist, and poisons with alternate effects (such as paralysis, slow movement, spike damage, ongoing damage etc.) could also be adopted, but this would mostly be an issue of the Profession (poisoner) skill making them, and the Equipment list having them to buy -- but it would need to be a pretty robust suite of options. There'd also need to be something that lets the assassin use them better than others, and I'm not sure what that would be -- surprise strike imposes a penalty to saving throws, so maybe that's enough?


    Scheme: Assassin
    You are a student of the many ways in which it is possible to end someone's life. Your training is on death and subterfuge and your skills often command quite a high price.
    Skills: Disguise, Bluff, Profession (Poisoner), Climb
    Manuevers: Surprise Strike, Sneak Attack, Spring Attack, Danger Sense

    Maneuver: Surprise Strike
    You strike before they have a chance to react.
    Effect: When you hit with a melee attack on a turn in which you have surprise, roll all the expertise dice you spend, and add them to your damage roll. Any saving throws that your attack provokes have disadvantage on them.
    Last edited by Kamikaze Midget; Saturday, 10th November, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
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  • #2
    You get A for the effort mate but I really don't like this warlord, it feels like 4e just barged right in and I've played a 4e warlord for two years...

    What I don't like are the maneuvers, too much meta gamy and not really somthing that feel organic to the system, say what you will about next meneuvere list, most of them feel like somthing that are an organic part of the action.

    The way I see it, warlords are either a speciality or just high level fighters who lead armies, the 4e concept of the warlord, a martial leader, don't fit into the lore of the game especialy with things like healing.

    As for assassins, I'd rather them being a rogue/fighter hybrid with access to both meneuvere lists and some poisons.

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  • #3
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    Well, if you're not a fan of the 4e warlord, I'd just not take those particular maneuvers. Anything wrong with them existing for those who might want them?

    For assassins, anything wrong with multiclassing?

    For me, I'm into multiple different ways to realize an archetype, this was just one thought experiment of one way it could be done.

    In what specific ways to these abilities feel meta-gamey or insufficient? Where does your reality break, or what is lacking that would help reinforce the idea?
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  • #4
    You know that's the same kinda additude that just made me screaming mad during the wizards hangout on google plus.

    They sit here and talk about What does non-magical healing mean then they go on at length about how hit points are a strange abstraction that doesn't rally represent actual damage... Then go back to saying that that non-magical healing makes them uncomfortable.


    This being stuck in the past is really turning me off of Next... Change the name to LAST, cuz it's obviously not about NEXT

  • #5
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    Um. The Warlord example here doesn't have any non-magical healing?

    The one HP-affecting ability included here uses the same mechanics from Parry, Protect, etc., just lets you use them on an ally instead of on you. In other words, it prevents damage, and does not heal it.
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  • #6
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    The problem with this is that any fighter can take them unrelated to actually being a warlord. It dilutes the warlord.
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  • #7
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    Ignore Kamikaze Midget
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Canuck
    The problem with this is that any fighter can take them unrelated to actually being a warlord. It dilutes the warlord.
    In this thought experiment, there would be no separate warlord or assassin classes.

    Instead, a player who wanted a warlord, would play a fighter with the Commander fighting style, and a player who wanted an Assassin would play a rogue with the Assassin scheme.

    I'm really beginning to think I didn't contextualize this thread right...
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  • #8
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    If we must continue to use expertise dice..

    Commanding Shout should probably not give *bonus* damage but use the ED alone to determine what damage the attack does.

    A bonus to attack when an ally is in melee with your target, sure, but ED break bounded accuracy quite a bit, with 2d6 you're likely to get +5 or +6 to hit, every round if you want, at only 4th level.

    My only thought on the assassin is that surprised should really be a condition that makes attacks on you have advantage, so sneak attack ought to trigger anyway. The Assassin ought to be studying the target for as long as possible before striking, which ED cannot currently capture.
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  • #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    Um. The Warlord example here doesn't have any non-magical healing?

    The one HP-affecting ability included here uses the same mechanics from Parry, Protect, etc., just lets you use them on an ally instead of on you. In other words, it prevents damage, and does not heal it.
    Sorry you and I posted at the same time, I was replying to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwarder View Post
    the 4e concept of the warlord, a martial leader, don't fit into the lore of the game especialy with things like healing.

  • #10
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    Ignore Blackbrrd
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze Midget View Post
    I'm really beginning to think I didn't contextualize this thread right...
    I just browsed your post and I am pretty sure I got your message across. Even the part where you are naming your creating your own kind of rouge, "Assassin". I wonder where it will sell well?

    I like your idea within the framework of the current incarnation of 5e, but I really don't like the framework. I can see that it's neat packaging maneuvers into a package and all that, but it forces me to look at the Maneuvers I will get at level 2-4-8-10 at level 1.
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