Here Comes . . . the Monk!

gweinel · Nov 13, 2012

I am the only one who found the monk un-interesting? It isn't bad, it has all the things that you expect, but in the end there isn't anything in it to inspire you. All the other classes in the course of the playtests had something (for me at least) that made you say "mmm...i like this aspect, i would love to see it in play". Monk seems to have nothing to inspire. It is a passable claass...

howandwhy99 · Nov 13, 2012

Y'know I always saw Monk as a kind of cleric

GreyICE · Nov 13, 2012

Well now we know that the Warlord will work on Expertise dice and Maneuvers.

I figured out how 4E could have won over 3E fans. Make a short class description with a few features then every few levels let people pick "maneuvers" from a "maneuvers list" or "spells" from a "spell list." Instead 4E chose to make everyone pick "powers" from a "powers list."

frankthedm · Nov 13, 2012

Stormonu said:
I think ALL characters should be MAD, so people won't concentrate on one ability score and instead HAVE to balance their abilities.

That's the the rub, if all characters had equal pressure to spread thier stats, it would be acceptable. It is a problem when it is only a significant issue for a few classes.

TBH, I loved the balance that existed in 4E PHB1's feats, where stat dumping cost you huge swaths of feat options. Sadly that got chucked out the window once the $platbook Treadmill got going.

Magil · Nov 13, 2012

gweinel said:
I am the only one who found the monk un-interesting? It isn't bad, it has all the things that you expect, but in the end there isn't anything in it to inspire you. All the other classes in the course of the playtests had something (for me at least) that made you say "mmm...i like this aspect, i would love to see it in play". Monk seems to have nothing to inspire. It is a passable claass...

You're not the only one. Flurry of Blows is terrible, and while some of the other maneuvers are interesting as concepts, they fall rather flat in execution. Like, deflect arrows. Why in the world would I ever do that? It's a cool concept, but too costly (it takes THREE expertise dice to get the full effect) and too limited. No way I'm spending a maneuver slot on that when I could take Iron Root Defense instead. Especially when the monk doesn't even get to select a maneuver until 4th level!

The features he gets when he levels up are just passive, uninteresting things. You don't even get to choose those things. That's one of the things I don't miss from 3rd edition and I'm kinda sad to see them come back.

Salamandyr · Nov 13, 2012

Considering I was for leaving the monk out of 5e, the expertise die allows the fighter to be quite deadly at unarmed combat, while still making weapon use a superior option, as it should be, and a large hit point pool allows survival outside of armor, for a while, I'm disappointed that this was the big surprise for this week. Hopefully there will be something else good to watch out the bad taste of this one.

I knew I was never going to win this fight. I think I'm the only person who feels this way. So I will look at this, and see if it makes an adequate alternate fighter class if I choose to run a "mystic warriors" type game where a mundane warrior would be inappropriate. I will NOT mix the monk into a game with mundane warriors.

Blackbrrd · Nov 13, 2012

frankthedm said:
Because if there is one thing game designers love doing, it is making monks MAD as hell!

He uses Dex for attacks, damage and defense and gets an AC bonus from wis to make up for the lack of armor. That's a pretty low level of MAD in my eyes.

The monk looked just boring, with more variations on how you can spend expertise dice to do the exact same damage in different ways. It really doesn't do it when it comes to class design for me. I think even 3e had more different progression of the Fighter*/Monk**/Rogue*** than this.

* With feats you could get some really different types of fighters
**No, I didn't like the 3e monk, his attack bonus and mad was atrocious.
***I liked the sneak attack, but the immunities to it was too much.

DEFCON 1 · Nov 13, 2012

I thought for a second that Flurry of Blows was a little bit off too... until I realized that it basically is the same as the Fighter's Volley and Whirlwind Strike maneuvers (the only difference being V & WS use one attack roll against every AC and FoB rolls each attack separately). The Monk, however, gets Flurry at level 1, whereas the Fighter doesn't get V or WS until level 10 (assuming you don't allow the 'make your own style' rule).

In both cases though... you are making the TWF decision-- less average damage for the ability to attack multiple creatures. Because in terms of damage, Deadly Strike's average is better than all the other three, since all the ED get added automatically without needing to hit on additional attack rolls... but that all goes to a single target, rather than multiple ones.

Magil · Nov 13, 2012

DEFCON 1 said:
I thought for a second that Flurry of Blows was a little bit off too... until I realized that it basically is the same as the Fighter's Volley and Whirlwind Strike maneuvers (the only difference being V & WS use one attack roll against every AC and FoB rolls each attack separately). The Monk, however, gets Flurry at level 1, whereas the Fighter doesn't get V or WS until level 10 (assuming you don't allow the 'make your own style' rule).

In both cases though... you are making the TWF decision-- less average damage for the ability to attack multiple creatures. Because in terms of damage, Deadly Strike's average is better than all the other three, since all the ED get added automatically without needing to hit on additional attack rolls... but that all goes to a single target, rather than multiple ones.

FoB is also much more limited, tied only to unarmed attacks. No staff-wielding monks allowed, apparently. Additionally, FoB can only be activated when you use your action to attack. Deadly Strike, Volley, and Whirlwind Strike can be used on attacks made as reactions, or other bonus attacks.

UngeheuerLich · Nov 13, 2012

Hmm, flurry of blows is not so bad. But a more limited Version of whirlwind Strike...

But: just allow him to regain his dice differently, and suddenly it becomes a bit more interesting!

Edit: just noticed, you can use flurry of blows against the same target. So if you miss, you have a second chance to do damage, which is quite good against weak targets!

Here Comes . . . the Monk!

gweinel

Explorer

howandwhy99

Adventurer

GreyICE

Banned

frankthedm

First Post

Magil

First Post

Salamandyr

Adventurer

Blackbrrd

First Post

DEFCON 1

Legend

Magil

First Post

UngeheuerLich

Legend

Similar Threads