Choosing a Star Wars game

For the past couple of months I've had a major itch to run a Star Wars game. I've done some research on a few systems, and I'm now having some issues picking one to use. I've listed some observations (and concerns) about the systems I've looked at. I'd be greatful for any well conceived and supported opinions anyone may have.

Savage Worlds
I like the relative simplicity of the rules, but in running a few practice combat scenarios, I've found same major concerns. With the way Aces and Raises work don't the heroes just walk through the opposition? I've seen cases where a hero one-shots another Wild Card. Fight over. Other cases where a group of Extras either try in vain to hit a Wild Card for several rounds or, with a lucky shot manages to put two Wounds on him. I like the idea of Fast! and Furious!, but so far it seems kind of out of whack and a bit too random.

Saga Edition
I see many people profess love for Saga, and I'd like to believe them. One of major concerns is the Defense progression. I hated the fact that defenses were "artifically" raised in 4E by adding 1/2 level to a defense. With this mechanic, weaker enemies have no chance to pose a threat to a hero, since they can't even hit them eventually. In a fantasy game, this may not be a big deal, but in a Star Wars game, a relatively low-level enemy such as an Imperial Stormtrooper should still be a threat to a higher-level hero throughout the campaign. Sure they may have to gang-up to be a major threat, but that's fine. I'd prefer not to have to artificially pump up a stormtrooper to have them stay dangerous.

D20 Star Wars
No thanks.

D6 Star Wars
This is the system I know the least about. I remember reading through it back in the 90's and thinking it sounded fun. I know that many people still profess love for it, but I' like to know what the pros and cons are.

I think I've explained my thoughts well enough. If not, I can try to clarify. I'm sure this issue has been discussed ad naseaum, so thanks in advance for any advice.

Hey there! I've run Savage worlds and SWSE, so I know two of them.

I think SWSE has some pretty big mechanical issues that need addressed, primarily with melee combat and Use the Force. (Skills should never be used for attacks, when you can get like a +13 at 1st level or so. Just saying.) And the condition track can be exploited. Nevertheless, I have a soft spot in my heart for it and think it's overall a good (but flawed) game. My short-ish list is...

(1) Let Force Powers advance as an attack bonus of sorts, but give everyone +1 per level regardless of class. This may mess with the math in unanticipated ways, but as-is the Force system's bonuses are just broken.
(2) Full Attacks are useless enough as is without making them impossible for melee characters. Let them be done as standard actions with melee weapons, at least.
(3) The Withdraw action is simply crazy. Fix it by maybe removing it, or else add in Shifting from 4e.
(4) Curb condition track abuse ... somehow. I dunno.

As for Savage Worlds ... I love Savage Worlds, though it would be some work, too. It can be a bit swingy, but honestly, that's what Bennies are for. Soak rolls are pretty powerful. Overall, though, I like the system enough that if I choose to run Star Wars again, it very well might be in Savage Worlds.

-O

I've played enough variants of d20 that it made me start to search for other systems, hence Savage Worlds.

I actually have done a ton of work to convert Star Wars to Savage Worlds. I've used existing conversions and d20/SWSE and altered them quite a bit. I think it's turned out pretty well, but the combat still has me a little skeptical.

That and starship combat/chases seem a bit wonky.

TyrantLobe said:

That and starship combat/chases seem a bit wonky.

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Yeah, SWSE has the virtue of having a functional system for starship combat. Savage Worlds has at least two options - the "Chase" rules which are fun and cinematic and the regular vehicle rules.

-O

I played a lot of the D6 editions (1st and 2nd), plus a lot of the d20 editions. I much preferred the d6 versions, although there were some good things d20 did.

Personally, my preferred edition is the original 1st edition Star Wars RPG (d6) plus the Star Wars Rules Companion. The 2nd edition made some changes that I wasn't happy with.

Cheers!

This past summer i put out a conversion of Dragon Age for Star Wars. Right now it's a playtest document, I'm still working on the final one. Please note, it is called Age of Rebellion, but the name outdates the recently announced Fantasy Flight SW game of the same name.

Find it here: http://dragonageoracle.com/2012/06/...star-wars-age-of-rebellion-playtest-document/

Don't forget that FFG is working on the latest version of Star Wars right now.

As others have mentioned, in Savage Worlds bennies (which both the GM and players have access to) can be used to soak wounds, so if the GM needs to he can prevent his BBEG from going down in one hit (something Lucas should have taken advantage of).

Of the various versions I've played, I like West End's D6 version the best, though it's hard to get powerful jedi characters even close to Kenobi as a padawan (but I've got a soft spot for bounty hunters and clone troopers/stormtroopers anyway...). If you're going with a non-jedi troupe D6 is probably your best bet.

Second place goes to SWSE. But as others have mentioned Use the Force needs fixing and melee characters have an uphill battle (and the armor rules suck out of the box).

At the moment, I'm pretty strongly in the Saga Edition camp. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I've seen. That said, I've heard a lot of good things about Savage Worlds, and it looks like it should work well for the setting.

I have no interest in the new FFG games. Mostly because of two of my deal-breakers: use of non-standard dice, and it won't be available in electronic format (which was borderline-acceptable 5 years ago when SWSE came out, but really isn't now).

TyrantLobe said:

Saga Edition
I see many people profess love for Saga, and I'd like to believe them. One of major concerns is the Defense progression. I hated the fact that defenses were "artifically" raised in 4E by adding 1/2 level to a defense. With this mechanic, weaker enemies have no chance to pose a threat to a hero, since they can't even hit them eventually. In a fantasy game, this may not be a big deal, but in a Star Wars game, a relatively low-level enemy such as an Imperial Stormtrooper should still be a threat to a higher-level hero throughout the campaign. Sure they may have to gang-up to be a major threat, but that's fine. I'd prefer not to have to artificially pump up a stormtrooper to have them stay dangerous.

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You may well have a problem with SWSE, then, since in that game you add your full level to defences. That said, remember that a nat-20 always hits, so if they gang up enough Stormtroopers will always remain a threat.

MerricB said:

I played a lot of the D6 editions (1st and 2nd), plus a lot of the d20 editions. I much preferred the d6 versions, although there were some good things d20 did.

Personally, my preferred edition is the original 1st edition Star Wars RPG (d6) plus the Star Wars Rules Companion. The 2nd edition made some changes that I wasn't happy with.

Cheers!

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Agreed - 1987 d6 Star Wars(with Rules Companion errata) is the one that really feels 'Star Wars' to me. It plays great, the templates are great, the starship combat rules are the only starship combat rules I've ever liked.

Stormonu said:

Of the various versions I've played, I like West End's D6 version the best, though it's hard to get powerful jedi characters even close to Kenobi as a padawan (but I've got a soft spot for bounty hunters and clone troopers/stormtroopers anyway...). If you're going with a non-jedi troupe D6 is probably your best bet.

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Would it be worth it to combine the d6 Star Wars rules with generic D6 Space rules? Would this improve the experience for Jedi?

delericho said:

You may well have a problem with SWSE, then, since in that game you add your full level to defences. That said, remember that a nat-20 always hits, so if they gang up enough Stormtroopers will always remain a threat.

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I'm not against the defense progression as long as lower-level enemies, such as stormtroopers can still be a threat. It's not Star Wars if stormtroopers aren't a threat to the heroes. Sure, they rarely hit anything in the movies, but that's not the point.