D&D 5E Maybe I'm just tired?

Summer-Knight925 · Nov 15, 2012

I'm not sure, but I really don't see that much I like in NEXT.

What, if any, are your biggest fears with NEXT?

Try to remain civil guys, I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just trying to address the negatives in a positive and civilized manner.

Li Shenron · Nov 15, 2012

There are plenty of things I like and a bunch of things I don't.

Since you're asking specifically about what we fear... (listed in descreasing order of importance)

#1- I am looking forward to 5e mostly as a chance to prepare and run the game more easily and in less time compared to 3e, which definitely looks very possible from 5e core rules of combat and encounters, BUT my main fear now is that character design complexity is increasing and my previous players are showing sign that they won't play if they have to read or think too much in order to make characters

#2- That the playtesting process is rigged and twisted by way too many gamers not playtesting but only answering the surveys with their opinions and pet peeves, resulting in plain inaccurate feedback that will keep stuff in the game just because they look kewl on paper, only to discover a year or two after publications that they cause serious practical problems, or viceversa knocking some interesting ideas out because of false problems

#3- That the designers get carried away by the enthusiasm for a few new cool ideas, and then literally flood the entire game with them (i.e. advantage/disadvantage, expertise dice, hit dice healing) instead of keeping them limited therefore more valuable

Unfortunately #2 and #3 tend to feedback-amplify each other.

Grydan · Nov 15, 2012

Summer-Knight925 said:
I'm not sure, but I really don't see that much I like in NEXT.

What, if any, are your biggest fears with NEXT?

Try to remain civil guys, I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just trying to address the negatives in a positive and civilized manner.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

I mean, really, the scariest thing the system can do to me is not be preferable to the system I currently use, and that's really not all that frightening. My old system isn't going anywhere, my books aren't going anywhere, and my players aren't going anywhere (and as I currently don't have an active subscription, even the possibility that they may be taking away the digital tools for the system wouldn't have any significant impact on me).

I suppose it could also go for the awkward position of preferable - for me - to the system I currently use, but not preferable for my players, but even that's more of a minor frustration than anything scary.

--

Do I hope the end result is a system that does more that I like than the system I currently use, and which does the same for my current batch of players? Absolutely. But if it turns out not to be that system? Meh. I hope whoever likes the end result enjoys it, and I'll look forward to seeing what new iteration they come out with another ~5 years down the line.

Raith5 · Nov 15, 2012

Li Shenron said:
#1- I am looking forward to 5e mostly as a chance to prepare and run the game more easily and in less time compared to 3e, which definitely looks very possible from 5e core rules of combat and encounters, BUT my main fear now is that character design complexity is increasing and my previous players are showing sign that they won't play if they have to read or think too much in order to make characters

I can live with the complexity of character design - because I think they have some good ideas here and you can always leave backgrounds and specialties at the door.

But general complexity I fear is the problem - I reckon things like DDN next skill system, the action economy, spells are more complicated or less clear than 4th ed.

More generally my biggest fear is zombie sacred cows - parts of previous edition being animated from the dead for nostalgia reasons rather than because they serve a core function. I quite like seeing new ideas like expertise dice because they seem to speak to the modularity they seek with some interesting effects.

Li Shenron · Nov 15, 2012

Raith5 said:
But general complexity I fear is the problem - I reckon things like DDN next skill system, the action economy, spells are more complicated or less clear than 4th ed.

A bit weird to me... 5e action economy is simply actions+move+reaction. I am not familiar with 4e, but this is at least simpler than 3.0 and much simpler than 3.5/PF.

Skill system's complexity IMO is ambiguous: an open-ended, flexible and subjective skill system can be seen as low-complexity by a DM who thinks that adjudicating is a natural DM's job and means freedom, but can be a nightmare for another DM who wants rules to lift from him the burden of adjudication (so he sees it as high-complexity in the sense that it forces the DM to do more work during the game); on the opposite, a strictly defined and regimented skill system could become a nightmare for the first DM who would see it as high-complexity (more work to understand, learn and remember), while it would be a blessing for the second DM.

delericho · Nov 15, 2012

Summer-Knight925 said:
What, if any, are your biggest fears with NEXT?

That it will be absolutely everything that we want in a game, but not sell quite well enough for Hasbro, who proceed to kill D&D.

Matrix Sorcica · Nov 15, 2012

delericho said:
That it will be absolutely everything that we want in a game, but not sell quite well enough for Hasbro, who proceed to kill D&D.

The Horror.... The Horror.

Raith5 · Nov 15, 2012

Li Shenron said:
Skill system's complexity IMO is ambiguous: an open-ended, flexible and subjective skill system can be seen as low-complexity by a DM who thinks that adjudicating is a natural DM's job and means freedom, but can be a nightmare for another DM who wants rules to lift from him the burden of adjudication (so he sees it as high-complexity in the sense that it forces the DM to do more work during the game); on the opposite, a strictly defined and regimented skill system could become a nightmare for the first DM who would see it as high-complexity (more work to understand, learn and remember), while it would be a blessing for the second DM.

Good point. I guess I just see a invite for constant negotiations as to what stat to use. I guess I like a system somewhere in between your types with a smaller set of skills.

Mattachine · Nov 15, 2012

My fears have already been discussed above:

1. Complexity will grow so much that the core rules are closer to 3e or 4e than BECMI

2. 5e won't be successful enough for Hasbro (maybe because Hasbro won't give it the marketing budget it deserves) and the game simply fails

Jan van Leyden · Nov 15, 2012

#1 - DDN features nothing so convincing that I use it instead of some older edition or another system.

#2 - A plethora of optional rules and rules modules make it a hassle just to define the game I want to play.

#3 - After defining a selection or rules and modules to be used, writing or modifying adventures becomes tedious again.