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Thread: Soldiers of the Blood War
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 07:50 PM #21
Superhero (Lvl 15)
The article was a move in the right direction, and it warms my black, twisted, Planescape-loving heart that it moves back towards the iconic 2e/3e Blood War.
The LE/NE/CE distinction between the fiends is something that is unique and iconic to D&D, and playing it down does it a disservice. It's cool, it's awesome, and I'm happy that it seems to be coming back. I didn't expect it, but I'll take it.
As for the article and the 'loths, they're mentioned briefly. It would have been best to see them treated on equal footing as the demons and devils, otherwise I fear that they'll be back to being second-class fiends as in 3e when they got cut from the MM for space reasons (to appear later scattered across multiple books). The brief mention of gehreleths/demodands though was pretty cool. Someone has been reading 2e.
As for the succubus, this isn't even a question for me: succubi are demons. They're among the iconic, classic demons of D&D and they're been there for almost longer than I've been alive. If you want to change them to something antithetical to that (as in 4e) that's something best reserved for a specific campaign setting change, not a default. Their default should be as CE tempters to mortals primal, lustful desires. To tear them away from the order and structure of family, pledges of love, betrothal, and the laws of society and to surrender to chaotic bliss. The 4e treatment of them always struck me as a needless change, doubly so for the continuity headache when it was forced onto other settings who evolved with a cosmology radically different from PoL.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 08:00 PM #22
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
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A return to the days of 2E (and, I suppose, 3E) for the fiends is, to me, a good thing.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 08:17 PM #23
Magsman (Lvl 14)
Lord I hope they dont start getting all berk on us again. I do not need or want all that planescape business in the core.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 08:33 PM #24
Superhero (Lvl 15)
The mention of the Marilith using Fighter mechanics intrigues me. This seems like a cool monster:
Expertise: The marilith has 6d6 expertise dice (each representing one of its six arms). It can spend them on the Parry and Extra Attack maneuvers. These dice recharge at the end of the marilith's turn.
Parry: When the Marilith is hit with a weapon attack while it wields a weapon, it can spend and roll one or more expertise dice to reduce the damage by the result.
Extra Attack: After the Marilith makes a Tail Whip attack, it can spend any number of expertise dice to make that number of Scimitar attacks (see below).
Tail Whip: +4 to hit, 2d8 + 4 damage, and the target is grabbed.
Scimitar: +3 to hit, 1d6 + 3 damage.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 08:55 PM #25
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
Lust is no different than greed in this respect (in fact, lust is pretty much greed for sex).
So if all the demons are tempters, then what do we need devils for? Maybe it is time to cut loose Asmodeus and all his Judeo-Christian baggage, and just have the Abyss. Graz'zt and Malcanthet are more fun to say than the thematically identical Mestopheles and Glasya anyway.
The 4e treatment of them always struck me as a needless change, doubly so for the continuity headache when it was forced onto other settings who evolved with a cosmology radically different from PoL.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 09:01 PM #26
Superhero (Lvl 15)
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 09:12 PM #27
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)
I dig the Blood War and am glad to see it return. It should be a part of the lore, but the ferocity of the Blood War should be left to DMs. Demons and devils should not play nicely together though, but it should be left to individual campaigns to determine if it's a Cold War, an active yet secondary war, or the primary goal of fiendish existence.
I'm not a big fan of the 4e attitude towards lore of change for change's sake, where too often it seemed like one person's pet peeve or fun idea was allowed to run roughshod over story matter than had been a part of the game longer than I've been alive.
Every idea or bit of lore was someone's favourite, and every monster is adored by someone. So change should never be done lightly.
That said, I quite liked most of the changes for 4e, the refocusing of demons on destruction and emphasis on the chaotic and elemental. There needs to be a sharp distinction for most demons and devils in M.O. There can be some exception (such as the Succubus being a non-smashy demon or the ice devil being a non-human devil) because they emphasize the default through contrast.
As for spells and odd abilities, a think a simple and small suite of abilities is good... for combat. Side abilities, such as a list of spells, are a great non-combat way of mechanically supporting the creature's place in the world. Monster in general need more of this. You don't need more than a reference and list -as it's something referenced away from the table where time is not a factor- and they might be limited in ritualistic use. For example, demons might have gate abilities usable as a ritual. The hezrou might be able to use darkness or teleport as rituals.Read my webcomic & blog at: http://www.5mwd.com
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 09:17 PM #28
Guide (Lvl 11)
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 09:27 PM #29
Defender (Lvl 8)
The guy who wrote it put a lot of time and effort into it and it shows. Plus it really cemented my ideas on what the distinction is and why all that cool history shouldn't be just swept under the rug.
Tuesday, 20th November, 2012, 09:30 PM #30
Superhero (Lvl 15)
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