Gygax Magazine? [UPDATE 3 - Electric Boogaloo]

S'mon

Legend
The one legal right S'mon doesn't mention is 'right of personality'. I hadn't heard of it until the Law of the Geek podcast had an episode on it. Its protection is based in state law in the US, so it is hard to predict how it would apply here

There is no 'Personality Right' in UK law. It can be said that the UK courts may take an expansive approach to the law of Passing Off (requiring Business Goodwill, Misrepresentation, and Damage per Jif Lemon) where there appears to be a misappropriation of a celebrity image - see Irvine vs Talksport; in that case Talksport used an unauthorised photo of Eddie Irvine the racecar driver to advertise their talk radio station. This was based on Irvine having an endorsement business.

Conversely in Stringfellow vs McCains the strip club owner Peter Stringfellow was unsuccessful in suing the food producer McCains for their "Stringfellows" long & thin chips, Stringfellow had no endorsement business to harm.

In this Gygax Magazine situation, I don't see any Misrepresentation given Luke & Ernie's use of their own name. I'm not sure whether the Gygax Estate has Business Goodwill in the Gygax name, it's not currently used but has been used in the past (to a limited extent) - a UK court could go either way, but I'd suspect they would say it does have Goodwill.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

JohnRTroy

Adventurer
But the key thing is that Personality rights are a concept in US Law, and the UK has different IP laws than the US, and both parties are in the US.
 

S'mon

Legend
TI agree with S'mon about the strength of Luke and Ernie's moral claims to the name, but that doesn't necessarily give them legal rights to publish a gaming magazine using it.

I would actually think it a lot more likely that the "TSR" Trade Mark could be struck off due to making use of a famous brand which still has residual business goodwill, than that they could get into trouble for using their own "Gygax" name, which has only ever had limited business use. But that's in UK law; US law varies by State.
 

S'mon

Legend
But the key thing is that Personality rights are a concept in US Law, and the UK has different IP laws than the US, and both parties are in the US.

What actually counts as an infringement does not seem to vary all that much, though - the law has been developing along similar lines.
 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
This is a key problem for me.


What is your position/connection to Gygax Games and/or Gail Gygax? You seem to have been informally representing Gygax Games's and/or Gail Gygax's interests online for a few years or more but I was never sure if there is an official connection. Do you represent either in a legal capacity? You seem to have some understanding of the law. Are you perhaps just a friend who also happens to be a lawyer?

My own involvement here is just as a fan who is also a regular Gary Con attendee who wants to see MORE celebration of Gary's legacy, not less, and who wishes all parties to be more active in bringing that end about.
 

trancejeremy

Adventurer
I would actually think it a lot more likely that the "TSR" Trade Mark could be struck off due to making use of a famous brand which still has residual business goodwill, than that they could get into trouble for using their own "Gygax" name, which has only ever had limited business use. But that's in UK law; US law varies by State.

A quick google search brings up the case of White Cloud toilet paper, a brand by Proctor & Gamble which was dropped (to try to push sales of their more expensive brand, Charmin), then some other company picked up the trademark and sold it to Walmart, which used it for their line of toilet paper.
 

Leif

Adventurer
... But that's in UK law; US law varies by State.
This is true, but it is also worth considering that oftentimes, when a state finds a statutory scheme that works for an area of law, then that state's statutes in that field of law are subject to being copied by other states. To say nothing of the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws. http://uniformlaws.org/

Admittedly, it is quite rare to find a statute that has been enacted precisely verbatim by a number of states. However, if there is a general consensus among the states on how best to handle a given situation, which happens more often than you might think, then the differences between the laws of those states concerning that matter will probably be largely superficial. It is also worth noting that the procedures and precedents concerning those laws can vary significantly from state to state. I strongly suspect that this holds true in any common law jurisdiction, American, English, or what-have-you.

Take legal drinking age for example: in the vast majority of states it is legal to buy spiritous liquors at age 21. However, by a judge's ruling, South Carolina appears to allow the possession and consumption of alcohol by those 18 to 20 years of age. [Article 17, Section 14 of the state constitution conditionally gives those 18 and over the "full legal rights and responsibilities" of all other adults, with one exception -- the General Assembly can restrict the sale of alcohol. But that section of the Constitution of S.C. does not specifically address consumption or possession, which leads to the conclusion that an 18-year-old can possess and consume alcoholic beverages, he/she just can't buy them.] And, the State of Wisconsin allows the consumption of alcohol by minors in the presence of parents. Otherwise, it now appears to be the law in practically every state that the legal drinking age is 21 years.

It hasn't been all that long, though, since the patchwork of legal drinking age(s) across the United States was considerably more variegated. If memory serves, which it may not, Florida and Louisiana both had drinking ages lower than 21. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
Last edited:

JohnRTroy

Adventurer
What is your position/connection to Gygax Games and/or Gail Gygax? You seem to have been informally representing Gygax Games's and/or Gail Gygax's interests online for a few years or more but I was never sure if there is an official connection. Do you represent either in a legal capacity? You seem to have some understanding of the law. Are you perhaps just a friend who also happens to be a lawyer?

There's no official connection. I was friends with Gary for over 15 years. While I guess you could count the stuff I contributed as "pro bono freelance", I not either an employee or freelancer of Gygax Games, nor do I plan on it in the forseeable future. In fact, I'm one of the few people who worked with Gary who doesn't really want a career in the publishing or game industry.

I've simply maintained a friendship with Gail since Gary died. On occasion, she will ask me to clarify things online as a favor, like I did in the thread before Morrus was contacted, but other than that, my opinions are my own. Admittedly, this gives me a bias of my own, as I have not had the opportunity to befriend Gary's kids, so in the case of family disagreements I'm only hearing one side, and my level of friendship (IMO) is just minor. And that's why I'm treading carefully.

I chime in on threads like this for two reasons. There's a tendency for people to jump in and see things without doing a lot of research, and I feel obligated to be truthful and try to correct misconceptions about Gary's past and his feelings--a lot of people just look to the "old days" and don't pay attention to other things Gary did, for instance. Also, I see Gail taking a beating for taking an unpopular stance with Gary's works, and while I think there is room for respectful disagreements, people need to remember that she's the spouse Gary was married to for almost 25 years, and games weren't the most important thing in his life.

As far as law goes--I just find creative rights and IP law fascinating, and have been involved in researching cases and helping other people out as a layman.

My own involvement here is just as a fan who is also a regular Gary Con attendee who wants to see MORE celebration of Gary's legacy, not less, and who wishes all parties to be more active in bringing that end about.

I have no objection to the Gygax sons publishing their own magazine, nor to GaryCon itself. I sincerely believe they want to just have some fun with gamers and work on their own creative endeavors, and I'm sure Gary would be proud of them for finally getting involved in a major way with game development. Heck, I'll pick up a few issues and see what it's like.

My only objection is the confusing name--I believe they need to respect how their Dad left things and don't make it look like they have "inherited the throne", nor attempt to try to trademark the term "Gygax" by itself (which is how the logo looks), which I think is what Gail meant by respect. I'm sure Gary would object to the use of the surname by itself on a magazine if he was not involved in it at all. If they were actually more involved in Gary's creative efforts, were being groomed as the heirs both legal and creative (with Gary making specific statements to that regard), etc., and then suddenly they were cut out by Gail, I could see my opinion being different, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Speaking of Law, I believe S'Mon is right about the TSR thing. Abandonment of the Trademark rather than never having it in the first place, An abandoned mark is not irrevocably in the public domain, but may instead be re-registered by any party which has re-established exclusive and active use, and must be associated or linked with the original mark owner. That's a pretty grey area to deal with. I know of at least one lawsuit where a music group's members got control of their trademark based on the goodwill (they being the original members, having a stable line-up) in a case the original production company was dissolved via bankruptcy and there was no legal transfer or assets from the owner's old company to new company, so there was no history of a registered mark. If, however, he could have proved abandonment of the mark, the group might have actually lost the case.

Anyway, I think Right of Publicity, even if it conflicts with Trademark law, could come into play. There's a good web site dealing with case precedent in the US.

http://rightofpublicity.com/notable-cases
 
Last edited:

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
Thanks for the response, JohnRTroy. I'm sure the legal situations will all be resolved in due course and I won't pretend to know what either side is thinking or doing to make that happen, so I won't comment on that aspect. As to getting to know what joy Gary's legacy brings to the folks who congregate at Gary Con every year, you should certainly not be a stranger and make your plans to come to the convention this year. Gary's games from all of his decades publishing are in abundance and folks have a great time playing and running them. Bring your dice! :)
 

Leif

Adventurer
Speaking of Law, I believe S'Mon is right about the TSR thing. Abandonment of the Trademark rather than never having it in the first place, An abandoned mark is not irrevocably in the public domain, but may instead be re-registered by any party which has re-established exclusive and active use, and must be associated or linked with the original mark owner.
This sounds reasonably accurate, in general terms, if not specific ones. We do, however, have at least one IP lawyer on this site! [MENTION=51567]Lou[/MENTION] care to comment? Or is that conditioned upon an assurance of payment?
That's a pretty grey area to deal with. I know of at least one lawsuit where a music group's members got control of their trademark based on the goodwill (they being the original members, having a stable line-up) in a case the original production company was dissolved via bankruptcy and there was no legal transfer or assets from the owner's old company to new company, so there was no history of a registered mark. If, however, he could have proved abandonment of the mark, the group might have actually lost the case.
The problem with the above analysis is that it involves a bankruptcy. There are many legal rules, statutes, and precedents that 'control' very many aspects of life in these United States. One of the fastest ways to get any particular one of them totally chucked out the window is to try to enforce it against a Debtor in Bankruptcy, a known creditor of such a person, or -God Forbid- a Bankruptcy Trustee. That being said, the case may well be as claimed, but the precedential value of the case itself would possibly be stronger if there was no bakruptcy involved. Possibly, mind you, just possibly.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top