A Problem with Fey

frankthedm

First Post
I'm normally big on the precedence of older editions, but not this time. One of AD&D's failings was that fey were on the most part a children's bowdlerized fairy tale 'force for good' rather than the child stealing, curse flinging fae that are making a comeback in popular media.

As for the dryad, I'd prefer D&D go with plant-like Dryads that lure victims with comely illusions and charms, trap them in their trees and slowly devour the victims life force over months or years.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Starfox

Hero
On gender, again I think its mostly a matter of perception. Men see female fey, women see male fey - if sex is what fills their mind. As the traditional herds(wo)man is in the late teens, that is very likely. A child, on the other hand, would probably see them as the same gender as themselves. Same goes to race - it's in the ye of the beholder. Of course, this causes trouble in a mixed group, so I think the best way for Next to go is to give each of these creatures a certain look and say that exact race and gender can wary depending on circumstances.

For an example of male fey, the fossengrim is called "näcken" (literally "the naked one" or Strömkarlen "man of the stream" in Swedish, and is decidedly male. It is a seducer and teacher of musical skill. Another form it can take is that of a horse (bäckahästen - literally "the brook horse") - again a wish-fulfillment fantasy for a lost traveler and also an excuse for becoming lost if you mount it and let it carry you away.

nacken.jpg


Strömkarlen by Ernst Josephsson 1884

Again, I don't mind the monstrous fey, as long as it is not their only form.

More on Sweden's Fossengrim
 
Last edited:

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
Epic
Yeah, I always thought fossergrim were male.

Dryads and nymphs are female...I suppose unless they don't want to be. Works for nymphs. Part of the whole dryad shtick is to charm men/males and take them into their trees. So making a male dryad doesn't make a lot of sense...not to mention lacking any folkloric/mythological basis.

As opposed to Nixie, who have been made to appear male or female (or just water) throughout the editions, and charm just to take folks below as "slaves" (albeit oblivious happy slaves) and then release them after a year and day (or whatever it was).

Satyrs can by male fey, I suppose, if they work the satyrs as "faye beings." Personally, I use them as a PC race in my campaign world, so there are male and female satyrs who reproduce as normal mammals. Kinda have that "once were faye" or "tangentially faye" thing that gnomes are sometimes given.

They could always fluff Selkie as a male faye...I think they are traditionally or usually depicted as male.

And who's ever seen a female brownie, grix or spriggan? (Note to self: female spriggans with rolling pins...)

Faye, as in "real/full-blooded faeries" are supposed to be immortal, aren't they? Ageless but Soulless? So I don't see what the problem is of a supernatural being (or "nature spirit" if you prefer) that is "always male" or "always female." But I don't think every faye needs to be made into transgendering individuals.

I think the question of what's male or female (and/or what can appear male or female) is a case by case...if there's mythological basis or even just a D&D lore that justifies it, go with it.

OH, and [MENTION=70]Nellisir[/MENTION], there are male succubi, they are called incubi [pl. incubus, singular]. Now, whether you treat them as a separate demon (I don't believe D&D ever has...:hmm: naturally) or just consider them a "shapechanged succubus" which is more than adequate (they being demons of temptation, after all) is up to whatever you want.

But worrying that dryads only having tanned or golden skin and greenish or brownish hair and "nymphs" (naiads) just have milky skin and blue hair (for example, I don't really care what color their hair is) and that not being "different enough" for creatures that ARE essentially just different "breeds" of the same creature is a waste of time and creating work where there is none.

Or, hell, just both of them looking like completely normal beautiful women (we're gonna argue over whether they appear human or elvish? Really?..."Seriously??" hahaha.) but one's in the woods and will run away or charm you...and one's by the mountain lake and will run away or charm you (and curse/kill you if you piss them off). Again, not "a problem", which was the subject of the article.

Their charms are magical, so I suppose it doesn't matter what they look like...so, one more time, why mess with it when there are tons of other creatures to work on?

--SD
 

Nellisir

Hero
OH, and [MENTION=70]Nellisir[/MENTION], there are male succubi, they are called incubi [pl. incubus, singular]. Now, whether you treat them as a separate demon (I don't believe D&D ever has...:hmm: naturally) or just consider them a "shapechanged succubus" which is more than adequate (they being demons of temptation, after all) is up to whatever you want.

I know. I didn't mention them accidentally.

Incubus have been documented in D&D. I'm not positive they've been detailed as a separate creature, but there has been a line or two in some of the succubus entries stating that a succubus in male form is known as an incubus. There have definitely been male tempter monsters in the Ravenloft MCs.

So, given that there is a male form of the succubus, there's a better argument for illustrating the succubus with a male than there is for illustrating the dryad with one.

But, you might say, a succubus is female. If you use a male, you'd have to call it a incubus. Well, yes, possibly. And I'd say that a dryad (or nymph) is female, and that the male version ought to be called something else. Like a leshy. Or woodwose. Or a ghillie dhu. Or if you want to get really messed up, a nuckelavee. Maybe a leprechaun. (Is there really a dearth of male nature fey?) Or you could take the route already pioneered by the succubus, and just put a line or two in the dryad entry, saying dryads could appear as male, but let everything else stand.

Does anyone know enough greek to say if dryad or nymph are gendered words?
 



Stormonu

Legend
Incubus have been documented in D&D. I'm not positive they've been detailed as a separate creature, but there has been a line or two in some of the succubus entries stating that a succubus in male form is known as an incubus. There have definitely been male tempter monsters in the Ravenloft MCs.

So, given that there is a male form of the succubus, there's a better argument for illustrating the succubus with a male than there is for illustrating the dryad with one.

D&D has done succubi/incubi both ways - as seperate creatures in one edition and as one creature capable of changing gender in others (I forget exactly, but I think 1E had them as seperate and either 2E Planescape or 3E merged them into one). It was, in fact this merging that got me thinking of the possibility of alternate gender nymphs/dryads.
 


Nellisir

Hero
D&D has done succubi/incubi both ways - as seperate creatures in one edition and as one creature capable of changing gender in others (I forget exactly, but I think 1E had them as seperate and either 2E Planescape or 3E merged them into one).

I'm pretty sure 1e did not have an incubus. Are you thinking of the alu-demon and the cambion?
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Man, sometimes it is like folks working on this game focus so much on the narrow bits that they miss the big picture. This is one of those moments.

Dryads and nymphs are very close (being fey representations of various wild things), but they have dramatically different defining qualities -- big picture, they play very different roles.

Dryads are defined in my mind by their relationship with trees. This is subtle in their physical appearance -- green hair, dark woody skin, leaves and vines in place of clothes, etc. Their beauty (which doesn't have to be feminine in my mind -- no reason we can't have hawt dryad boys) is metaphor made literal: it is the beauty and desirability of the tree itself that is given form in a way that speaks to those who want it. When you use a Dryad in the game, you use it something like an NPC encounter: they have knowledge, perhaps treasure, and probably have problems helpful PC's can solve, and maybe if the party pisses it off something bad happens. It's like encountering a wild animal, or a vagabond: maybe it'll be OK, maybe it'll be a problem, but it reflects a world bigger than this particular encounter. It's a chance to reinforce your character archetype by imagining how they'd react to this creature, if they'd help or hurt or try to profit from it.

Nymphs are defined in my mind by their beauty. Again, in my mind, this doesn't have to be feminine (segsy nymph dudes should be a definite possibility!), but it is also metaphor made literal because nymphs represent wild places in general. It is the beauty and desirability of a place where no one has gone before (IYKWIMAITYD), the desirability of something no one else can understand, and that no one can ever truly understand (hence the blindness and death from beauty). When you use a nymph in D&D, you use it something like a "gotcha monster" -- a trap encounter. It's not something you're expected to really interact with very much, it's something you either suffer from, or not, and then the moment is over. Sometimes they can grow into NPC's, but they're more dangerous of the wilderness than fully-formed characters, typically. When they are NPC's, because of their nature, they're necessarily limited ones. Nymphs are dangerous -- not hostile, not aggressive, but just by what they are, risky to be around.

Beautiful things are not just beautiful things that are one-dimensional beautiful things. Beauty isn't necessarily a defining trait for the beautiful. I'm a straight man, so I know plenty of women I find immensely beautiful who aren't then defined by that beauty. There's a lot more that my girlfriend offers. ;)

With a nymph, for the purposes of artwork, it's probably OK to be defined visually by that beauty. I think the most accurate Nymph artwork would probably look more like amorphous blobs of light and shadow than any person. Like staring at the sun. Like the opposite of a Lovecraftian horror: all perfect angles and appealing symmetry.

With a dryad, beauty is there, but it's not what makes them unique or special. Yes, they're lovely in the way that all ineffible faerie magic things can be lovely, and it's important that they are that, but they aren't defined by that. They're defined in D&D by trees, by wood, by leaves, by branches, by greens and browns and autumnal reds and golds and floral pinks and violets, by fruit (literal and metaphorical).

I'm not a fan of the monstrous dryad. Dryads and nymphs are not hostile creatures. They're magical and mythical and metaphorical and beautiful, but they're not there to fight and die in 5 rounds. They're not going to come after the PC and attack them until their dead. They have other concerns. They don't need to look like they're going to get in a fight -- they probably AREN'T. Even a dryad who has to get hostile is going to get hostile by getting the trees and animals to kick your butt, without having to do much more than lift a magical finger.
 

Remove ads

Top