Who's more glamourous - movie or music stars?

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
No, he has a point. Any public figure has a "public face", a role they play to market themselves. Robert Downey Jr. doesn't pretend he's Tony Stark 24/7, but don't expect that the man you see when he goes on an interview show is the same as the guy at home in his den when there's no camera on him.

To see the point, think Marylin Monroe, and how different her public face was from what we eventually learned her personal life was like...

I think you're reading our positions as the polar opposites of what they are. You say it yourself -- "Any public figure". A different position to the "actors, but not musicians" stance I was arguing against.

I agree; all of them do that. I do not agree that actors do it, while musicians don't.

I don't imagine for a second that Elton John dresses up in funny costumes and prances around like a madman while taking his new kid to school, or that Lady GaGa is as odd as she pretends to be on stage and in interviews.

Sportsmen, businessmen, everyone. This is not the province of actors alone.
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Jackson was many things, but glamorous was not one of them. Why not? Because glamor makes you want to be near the person in question. Michael, meanwhile, carried many of the stamps of the form, "This is Nature's way of telling you to STAY AWAY!" He was rich, exccentric, and excessive... but beyond glamor and into weird and of questionable judgement.

That's my take. He was rich, and I have no doubt he wanted to be glamourous; like many rich folks, though, he mistook excess for glamour.
 

Mary_Crowell

First Post
I have to agree with Morrus. Jackson was many things, but glamorous was not one of them. Why not? Because glamor makes you want to be near the person in question. Michael, meanwhile, carried many of the stamps of the form, "This is Nature's way of telling you to STAY AWAY!" He was rich, exccentric, and excessive... but beyond glamor and into weird and of questionable judgement.

I don't think that 'glamourous' is necessarily defined by wanting to be near the person/entity in question.
Dictionary.com defines it as " charmingly or fascinatingly attractive, especially in a mysterious or magical way." or secondarily "full of excitement, adventure, and unusual activity"
Merriam-webster.com goes with "Excitingly attractive."

I just rewatched "Thriller" by the way. It was so revolutionary when it came out, and it ages well as a video. Very well. There are so many parodies of it out there. I was just trying to think of a few: the Halloween episode of South Park; a climactic battle in Rob Balder's ErfWorld. I just found a Lego Thriller parody. (Master costumers at MARCON in 2007 did a fantastic reproduction of the choreography for the masquerade.) Pretty much if you're going to get a bunch of undead together, they are going to dance and dance well indeed. And yes, the dancing, the singing, the costuming are all "excitingly attractive."

Was Michael Jackson mysterious? Yep, and he got really weird and disturbing. But earlier in his career did he manage 'glamourous' for a time? Yes, I would say he did.

Michael Jackson aside--speaking more generally now:
It can be more difficult to be 'glamourous' because there is so much more social connectivity than there used to be. Also, the media does not keep its distance from one's private life. I'm not sure why "wanting to be near the person in question" is part of the definition, but certainly NOT being able to be near a person adds to their mystery. That's why there's the show biz phrase out there, "Always leave them wanting more." So, probably the more a musician and/or actor(ress) manages to keep the mundane or sordid aspects of their life out of the public eye the more they are able to achieve 'glamour.'
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I don't think that 'glamourous' is necessarily defined by wanting to be near the person/entity in question.
Dictionary.com defines it as " charmingly or fascinatingly attractive, especially in a mysterious or magical way." or secondarily "full of excitement, adventure, and unusual activity"
Merriam-webster.com goes with "Excitingly attractive."

Yes. And what does "attractive" mean? Gravity is an attractive force, and it... pulls things together!

Or did I slip into Bizzaro World again, such that "attractive" means "makes me want to run away from" or "makes me want to paint him blue" or something?
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I think you're reading our positions as the polar opposites of what they are. You say it yourself -- "Any public figure". A different position to the "actors, but not musicians" stance I was arguing against.

I agree; all of them do that. I do not agree that actors do it, while musicians don't.

Ah. I misunderstood the thrust of, "musicians don't walk around singing 24/7. But Robert Downey Jr. doesn't walk around pretending he's Tony Stark 24/7, either". I was making the clarification that Robert Downey Jr. walks around pretending to be Robert (Public) Downey Jr., and Stefani Germanotta walks around pretending to be Lady Gaga.

Aside from taht, though, it occurs to me that when you're talking about "stars" in music these days, playing music is only part of the job description, no? Lady Gaga being a good example - there's a whole lot of showmanship to musical stardom these days beyond just playing music. So, in that sense, those musical stars are always still doing the job of musical stars, because the show is more than just their music nowadays. Video killed the radio star, and all that.
 

Mary_Crowell

First Post
Yes. And what does "attractive" mean? Gravity is an attractive force, and it... pulls things together!

Or did I slip into Bizzaro World again, such that "attractive" means "makes me want to run away from" or "makes me want to paint him blue" or something?

I think that certainly one definition of attractive is simply wanting to be near the thing or entity considered attractive. But it can include finding something fascinating, engaging, and/or interesting and not necessarily include wanting physical proximity. I can think of many people I've met or seen that I find very attractive but have no interest in being near them. Volcanoes are gorgeous and make for fascinating study as do poisonous snakes. I'm not planning cuddling up to either one.
 

sabrinathecat

Explorer
Hm.

I choose to take this in the geeky gamer sense: not as glamourous (charmingly or excitingly attractive), but as glamourous (covered in fae magic to make them appear as they are not)!

Then, I say they're both glamorous. The movie stars more Seelie, the musicians more Unseelie. But all fake. And don't eat anything they offer you if you visit them....
I'd have to go this route too.
Remember, reading was at one point considered glamourous, because so few people were able to do so.

But then I have to add a definition for fashion:
Fashion--laws of ugliness so vile they must constantly be changed.

Also, the White Court has taken over control of a significant portion of the modelling and porn industries, trying to program the humans to find them more attractive.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Aside from taht, though, it occurs to me that when you're talking about "stars" in music these days, playing music is only part of the job description, no? Lady Gaga being a good example - there's a whole lot of showmanship to musical stardom these days beyond just playing music.
Would you want to be near Lady Gaga? I wouldn't! ;)

Anyway, there are musicians that are known for their music and then there are musicians that are known for their shows. The question is: Which kind is more common?
The same can be said for actors, too, though, e.g. 'Brangelina' is (are?) typically don't make it into the headlines because of their acting prowess...

The message that the multitudinous music talent shows want to promote is exactly that: To become a music star you have to make a good show and good looks and dancing skills are at least as important as a good voice. How comes then that almost no one who's won one of these shows actually becomes a star?

To me, if someone doesn't write her own songs, she's not even a music star - she's just a performer.

The kind of music stars I'm thinking of are Radiohead or Pearl Jam or maybe Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan. I find the other kind of 'music' stars, say Rhianna or Ke$ha only tolerable if I turn off the sound ^^

Anyway, at least the discussion has shown me that the answer isn't as clear-cut as I thought and my idea what 'glamour' means might be wrong.

It's hard to describe but I always felt thar glamorous meant that someone is somehow 'larger than life'. It also has a component of superficiality and 'falsehood' to it: The Fey use glamour to make illusions seem real or to turn 'base' items into something precious. To them glamour _is_ real. Also, Fey are incapable of original thought or creation which is why they enjoy abducting humans with artistic talent.

To me, stars of the Show-Biz (be they actors or 'music stars') are the modern, real-world Fey.
 

Mary_Crowell

First Post
Aside from taht, though, it occurs to me that when you're talking about "stars" in music these days, playing music is only part of the job description, no? Lady Gaga being a good example - there's a whole lot of showmanship to musical stardom these days beyond just playing music. So, in that sense, those musical stars are always still doing the job of musical stars, because the show is more than just their music nowadays. Video killed the radio star, and all that.

Yep. Definitely agree with you here, [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION]. There is a lot of showmanship to both. And just from what I've read in the various newsletters CDBaby sends me and all the videos musicians that I know are putting out on youtube: that line between crafting an image as a movie star and and crafting one as a music star continues to blur. Throw in the greater social media connectivity I mentioned earlier and either type of media personality is faced with more opportunities to shape their image to the public (or screw it up) than they had even three years ago.

[Aside: i love the cover of "Video killed the radio star" by the Wrong Trousers http://www.collegehumor.com/video/1144543/video-killed-the-radio-star]
 

sabrinathecat

Explorer
At 86, Eartha Kitt was still amazing, with sensuality, charisma, magnetism, and more raw stage presence than any other musician or performer I've ever seen.
Did she write her own songs? Only one or two. But I would still rank her far above Gaga, Lauper, Madona, or Springsteen.

Of course, there's a big difference between writing talent and performing talent. One does not guarantee the other.
 

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