D&D 5E Monsters of Many Names - Wandering Monsters (Yugoloth!)
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
If they stick with the classic storyline, they're on a solid track, here. I like the idea of winnowing the spell-like ability list down to the most iconic and powerful spells, too -- helps give greater distinction.
Kinak
First Post
Outside of A'kin, who I love enough to justify the entire Yugoloth race, I never really had much use for Yugoloths or Gehreleths.
The races have strong themes, but they've never come across very well in the MMs.
In my perfect world, the Yugoloth's mercenary bent would be pushed to the forefront, making them the goto fiend for summoning. The trick there is not using summoned devils and demons in published material when yugoloths could do. Just saying "everyone summons these!" over and over doesn't really make an impression.
For Ghereleths, they don't really move around canonically, so leaving them in Carceri and for later books is fine. They just need to make sure they're meaningful opponents for the level of PCs that would be breaking into Carceri (or banished to Carceri) for whatever reason.
Cheers!
Kinak
The races have strong themes, but they've never come across very well in the MMs.
In my perfect world, the Yugoloth's mercenary bent would be pushed to the forefront, making them the goto fiend for summoning. The trick there is not using summoned devils and demons in published material when yugoloths could do. Just saying "everyone summons these!" over and over doesn't really make an impression.
For Ghereleths, they don't really move around canonically, so leaving them in Carceri and for later books is fine. They just need to make sure they're meaningful opponents for the level of PCs that would be breaking into Carceri (or banished to Carceri) for whatever reason.
Yes, this is great.
Cheers!
Kinak
TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Outside of the rilmani, I can't think of a single outer plane race I care about less than the yugoloths or gehreleths. I loved Planescape, and I didn't even like them then. Call them demons and be done with it.
More fey, less sixteen different varieties of "ugly bloated thing from faraway dimensions."
More fey, less sixteen different varieties of "ugly bloated thing from faraway dimensions."
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
TwoSix said:
See, to me, the plane of origin doesn't dictate what I need. Faerie, Shadow, Gehenna...to the podunk villagers IMCs, they're all just Far Away Places. Heck, the next valley is probably Far Away, too, so whenever a traveling merchant comes to town it may as well be an ugly bloated thing from a faraway dimension.
Storylines help dictate what I need. And I need a diversity of stories. Which means a diversity of villains with a diversity of agendas. Gehreleths are interested in taking and keeping prisoners. Yugoloths are interested in selling their services and spreading their shadow agenda. This is distinct from the Devil's agenda of corruption or the Demon's agenda of destruction. It's also different from the Faerie motives of flighty personal desires, the Slaadi's agenda of spreading rampant chaos, and the Modron's agenda of establishing peaceful order.
Those are all different stories, stories I'm interested in telling in my games, stories that will not be served by smashing everything vaguely menacing and otherworldly into the same pot.
Stormonu
Legend
Yugoloths and Gereleths/Demodands never got any traction in my games; the only time a yugoloth ever appeared was because I needed an ultraloth as an 'ultimate enemy' my PCs hadn't memorized the stats on.
Of course, I've never really had much use for even the demon/devil distiction or all the variants D&D has put out over the years. Really, for me I'd be fine if I had stats for a lesser demon and greater demon, and a table to give them random abilities.
Of course, I've never really had much use for even the demon/devil distiction or all the variants D&D has put out over the years. Really, for me I'd be fine if I had stats for a lesser demon and greater demon, and a table to give them random abilities.
TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I agree with the need for a diversity of plotlines. (And really, how could I disagree with that? "My game needs less imagination and creativity!")
But honestly, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone suggest an actual story seed springing from a gehreleth. I've never thought of them that way at all. "Demonic slavers" is a really good storyline. I just don't think we need to call them something other than "demons" to get that storyline. I think less overall groups with a greater amount of diversity within their ranks, each pursuing several different possible motivations makes for a more interesting story overall.
Like others here, it seems the daemons/yugoloths and demodands/gerthamuhcallems [which until this article I never even knew had a name besides demodand, which I always felt was a BS lame name to begin with] never really caught on/were necessary to my games. The odd daemon encounter, mostly thanks to Vault of the Drow back in the day...and an Arcanadaemon BBEG many many moons ago. But as a movin'/shakin' force of the lower planes. Not so much. They're kinda just "down there", like demons and devils in my campaigns, for the most part. But then, my campaigns have rarely ever jaunted around the planes, so that could be why.
That said, I have no problem with them having devils for the Lawful Evil/Nine Hells planes, the demons for the Abyss/Chaotic Evil planes and the daemons [yugoloths if you prefer, doesn't really matter to me] for the Tarterus/Neutral Evil planes. They seem well adapted and developed to make great "Big Bads" without having to use demons or devils.
Demodands just seem completely unnecessary and redundant. I've always thought that. Flush them and their tar-ooze-slime, sez I.
That said, I have no problem with them having devils for the Lawful Evil/Nine Hells planes, the demons for the Abyss/Chaotic Evil planes and the daemons [yugoloths if you prefer, doesn't really matter to me] for the Tarterus/Neutral Evil planes. They seem well adapted and developed to make great "Big Bads" without having to use demons or devils.
Demodands just seem completely unnecessary and redundant. I've always thought that. Flush them and their tar-ooze-slime, sez I.
It may be a personal idiosyncrasy, but I cannot stand the names they made up in 2E to avoid calling anything "demon" or "devil." Tanar'ri? Yick. Baatezu? Yick squared. Yugoloth? Yick with a side order of bah. "Yugoloth" makes me think of an extraplanar dessert made of fermented stench kow milk.
Unfortunately, I already see a ton of confusion at the game table between "demon" and "devil," so throwing "daemon" into the mix would be less than helpful. Given their role, I'd be inclined to get rid of the blanket "yugoloth" category and make them a grab bag of independent fiends, of no common origin and beholden to neither Chaos nor Law. Failing that, just dump them into the demon bucket. I do kinda like "demodand," and it's reasonably distinctive, so that name can stay.
Unfortunately, I already see a ton of confusion at the game table between "demon" and "devil," so throwing "daemon" into the mix would be less than helpful. Given their role, I'd be inclined to get rid of the blanket "yugoloth" category and make them a grab bag of independent fiends, of no common origin and beholden to neither Chaos nor Law. Failing that, just dump them into the demon bucket. I do kinda like "demodand," and it's reasonably distinctive, so that name can stay.
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