Pathfinder 1E How compatible is Green Ronin's Book of Fiends with Pathfinder cosmology?

VelvetViolet · Sep 1, 2013

The Book of Fiends by Green Ronin presents a largely self-contained depiction of the demons, devils, and daemons. How compatible are these renditions with the Pathfinder cosmology? For example, the daemons presented in the book are purveyors of sin, whereas Pathfinder daemons are incarnations of death, so they can't be used interchangeably.

Wicht · Sep 1, 2013

I would hazard a guess that Eric Mona's work is generally compatible with Eric Mona's other work.

I think the Paizo guys were pretty well aware of what was in Green Ronin's work. While some of the cosmology is different, the stats and base ideas should be fairly portable.

Wicht · Sep 1, 2013

In 2007, Jacobs had this to say when queried about the seven sins and the book...

James Jacob said:
At this point, the connection is merely that the seven sins are an excellent source for writing about evil and fiends. Currently, the daemons of the Book of Fiends don't play a huge role in Rise of the Runelords... mostly because there's not a heck of a lot of them that are low CR and/or would fit logically into the adventure. Furthermore, the daemon backstory isn't open content, I don't think, so most, if not all of that can't be used by us.

That said... the thaumaturge class from Book of Fiends DOES get used in the first adventure in Rise of the Runelords. And I do suspect that we'll be going back to that book now and then for monsters in the future.

I notice that the closed content is off limits, which is natural enough, but they have respect for the book itself. With the advent of the PFRPG, of course some of the stats are a little off, but the monsters themselves are fair game for use.

Morrus · Sep 1, 2013

I loved that book.

Tovec · Sep 2, 2013

I don't really have any reference for the Daemons you are talking about for Book of Fiends. But I don't see why that should make Green Ronin's outsiders to be any different than Pathfinder is from 3.5's cosmology. Daemons in PF are about death? Who knew. I knew that the four horsemen are in PF's cosmology but I've never had reason to worry about them. Daemons are just yugoloths with another set of paint, same goes for the devils and demons.

I guess my question is what makes Green Ronin's cosmology/monsters so incomparable with PF's cosmology. Like anything in specific that doesn't jive or just the general descriptions of death dealers vs sin dealers?

Shemeska · Sep 2, 2013

Tovec said:
I don't really have any reference for the Daemons you are talking about for Book of Fiends. But I don't see why that should make Green Ronin's outsiders to be any different than Pathfinder is from 3.5's cosmology. Daemons in PF are about death? Who knew. I knew that the four horsemen are in PF's cosmology but I've never had reason to worry about them. Daemons are just yugoloths with another set of paint, same goes for the devils and demons.

I guess my question is what makes Green Ronin's cosmology/monsters so incomparable with PF's cosmology. Like anything in specific that doesn't jive or just the general descriptions of death dealers vs sin dealers?

I wrote the PF daemon book (Book of the Damned 3) and a lot of the cosmology, so I'll field the question. Of course if Jacobs, Mona, or one of the actual Paizo guys pop in, they can provide a more official answer.

I haven't read it for a number of years now, but the GR daemons were based on the 7 sins. On the other hand, Pathfinder's daemons personify death and the various ways that mortals die (with PF demons arising from mortal sins). They're rather different in concept, though nothing precludes you from including them both in the same game. Unlike the yugoloths (which are very often quite different by intentional design from PF daemons) the daemons don't have the same smug superiority thing going on when it comes to the other fiends or just other outsiders in general. They're far more obsessed with mortals and killing every last one of them in the entire cosmos. There is no Blood War, the PF daemons are relatively young compared to how the 'loths were the eldest fiend race, etc.

Pathfinder's divs are a lesser race of fiends that also occupy Abaddon, and if the 4 Horsemen are perfectly fine with that, similar reasons can be used to explain why they wouldn't mind also giving some space to the GR daemons. In PF/Golarion planar history, demons were actually created as an experiment on mortals souls by one of the 4 Horsemen (potentially Lyutheria the Parasite Queen, the former Horseman of Famine). So perhaps you could spin the GR daemons as either a hybrid race of sorts, or an earlier iteration of the experiment, and for reasons to be determined remained in Abaddon as vassals of the PF daemons.