3catcircus
Adventurer
So I'm considering instituting some homebrew changes to Pathfinder, taking inspiration from a different game system, and looking at the following areas:
1. Changing the core mechanic to a roll-low d20 dice pool system.
2. Getting rid of BAB.
3. Getting rid of saving throws as they currently exist.
4. Changing the hp mechanic.
5. Changing the damage and healing mechanics.
The reasons for doing so are to add additional chance, making wounds and healing more "realistic" (I know - realistic is a loaded word), and making combat much more serious.
So, rather than roll a d20 + mods and comparing to a DC (or AC for attacks), what I want to do is use the number of skill ranks (BAB in the case of combat) as the basis for the number of d20s in a dice pool (maximum of say 6d20) as well as affecting the DC. The basic DC would be your controlling attribute (e.g. if you have a STR 12 and attempting something strength-based, your DC would be 12) and you goal would be to roll 12 or lower. Skill ranks would raise the DC (making it easier to succeed). The amount you succeed by would be added to any variable effects and each additional die in the pool that is a success would add 2 more to the amount you succeed by.
For combat, the DC would be controlling attribute (STR or DEX) minus AC. AC would just be armor and other mods (no 10 + armor + mods + ...). A critical would be scored when you beat the DC by 5 or more and a fumble would occur when you fail by 5 or more.
The number of dice in your pool would be based on skill ranks (or BAB for combat). I'm thinking 0 ranks = 2d20 (but have to pick the higher of the two rolls) vs. the bare controlling attribute, 1-3 ranks = 1d20L, 4-6 ranks = 2d20L, 7-9 ranks = 3d20L, 10-12 ranks = 4d20L, 13-15 = 5d20L, and 16+ = 6d20L.
Saving throws would use this same formula, but the Fort/Ref/Will bonus would act as the "skill rank."
Initiative would be based both on a flat encumbrance-based number and on how successful you are at beating your Dex check (2 x the amount you are successful by).
Armor would, as previously mentioned, not start at 10 (so a guy with Plate Armor, a heavy steel shield, and Dex 10 would have AC 11 (+9 armor + 2 shield +0 Dex). But, armor would provide DR at the rate of 1/2 AC - so this example would have AC 11, DR 5.
Weapons would, instead of using the crit multiplier to do extra damage, use that as a penetration value. Damage would be subtracted by the DR multiplied by the penetration.
Hit points would not go up with level. They would be based on a flat formula of [10 + STR + 2 x CON]/4. This base would then have multipliers that would be trip points to compare against damage to determine wounds (light, moderate, serious, critical) that would vary by hit location (head .
So, using an example monster, it'd have stats as follows (only relevant stats shown for illustrative purposes):
Troll
Base Initiative 15 (Light encumbrance), Perception DC 12 (2d20L)
AC 6, touch 1, flat-footed 4 (+2 Dex, +5 natural, -1 size), DR 3/acid or fire
Fort DC 23 (2d20L), Ref DC 14 (1d20L), Will DC 9 (1d20L)
base hp 19
(head 1, 10, 19, 28) / torso (1, 19, 38, 57) / each limb (1, 19, 28, 38)
Melee bite DC 21 (2d20L), dmg 9, pen 1; 2 claws DC 21 (2d20L), dmg 8, pen 1
Special Attack rend (2 claws, dmg 10, pen 1)
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 23, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6
BAB +4 (2d20L), CMB DC 21 (2d20L), CMD 12
Let's say the troll were to attack a 6th level human fighter NPC (Dueling Sword Fighter) who has gotten ahead of the rest of his party - I'm not going to bother showing his converted stats for the below example of combat.
The Troll rolls initiative: His base init is 15. He rolls 2d20L and gets a 13 and a 20. His 13 is lower than his init base by 2, so his initiative is 15 + 2 x 2 = 19.
The NPC rolls a 19 and a 5, so his initiative is 15 + (2 x 10) = 35.
The Fighter attacks first using his dueling sword. His DC is 18 (using Dex due to Weapon Finesse) + 1 (Weapon Focus) - AC 6 = 13. He rolls a 12 (success) and a 19. His damage is 9 + 1 (margin of success) - 3 (DR) * 1 (pen) = 7 points of damage, to the Troll's left elbow/forearm. This is above the light threshold of 1, but below the moderate threshold of 19. A slight wound to the left arm will reduce his dice pool by one for any activity using that limb.
Now, it is the Troll's turn to attack. He begins with a bite (DC 21 - AC 11 = 10). He rolls an 8 and a 16. His damage = 9 + 2 - DR 4 * pen 1 = 7 to the fighter's right shoulder - a slight wound. On first claw attack (right claw), he rolls a 4 and a 5, beating DC 10. He does (8 + 6 (margin of success) + 2 (2nd die is also a success)) * 2 (critical due to beating roll by 5 or more) - DR 4 * pen 1 = 28 points of damage to the fighter's right hip/thigh. The damage exceeds the critical threshold for the limb. The fighter immediately enters into shock and is unable to take any other actions during the round. He must make a Fort save or begin bleeding out - with his rolls of 7, 16, and 20 against DC 12, he succeeds. Because of the horrific nature of the wound, he is immediately knocked down and loses the use of the leg until healed. Luckily the damage doesn't exceed 2x the critical wound threshold, otherwise he'd have a 50% chance of the leg having been catastrophically amputated. The troll now uses his 2nd claw attack but can only roll 1d20 instead of 2d20 because of the wound inflicted on him by the fighter. He rolls a 1 - a critical hit against the fighter (DC 21 + 4 (fighter in shock) - AC 11 = 14) and does (8 + 13) * 2 - DR 4 * pen 1 = 38 hit points to the fighter's lower abdomen - a serious wound. He has to roll a Will save to avoid going into shock, but since he is already in shock, he becomes unstable if he fails instead - he gets a 3, 5, and 12 - still managing to avoid bleeding out.
So let's stop here for a moment. The troll has a slight wound to his left arm (which reduces his dice pool by 1 for any actions using that arm). The fighter has a slight wound to his right shoulder, a critical leg wound, and a serious wound to his stomach. Let's say, for illustrative purposes, that the troll's rend attack causes another slight wound to the fighter's right shoulder. Because he has two wounds of the same level to that area, it is additive and turns into a moderate wound to the shoulder. He has to make a Fort save or begin bleeding out - he rolls two 11s and a 16. This guy just won't die... At the beginning of the next round, he can try to crawl away, but otherwise he is likely going to be killed.
Cue the fighter's buddies who were in the other room and come charging in. They beat the troll in initiative. The Rogue immediately performs first aid (DC = Wis 15 + 4 ranks in heal - 1 for the moderate wound, - 2 for the serious wound, and -3 for the critical wound = DC 13) He rolls and gets a 1 and a 2. His margin of success is 12 (13 - 1) + 2 (due to the second success) = 14 and since he rolled better by 5 or more on his initial success, it is a critical success. The GM decides this means that none of the wounds will get infected. The cleric casts a cure critical wounds - this heals the leg wound to serious, and heals the other wounds - the moderate wound becomes light and the serious wound becomes moderate. The wizard lobs an acidic spray at the Troll, doing 20 points of damage to every part of the troll (no DR). Each limb and the torso has a moderate wound, while the troll's head suffers a serious wound. The troll has to roll 5 Will saves for the moderate wounds. His first check is a success, but none of the others are not - and they all fail by 5 or more - the first failure puts him into shock and the subsequent failure makes him unstable and begin bleeding out. The troll also has to make a Will save for the serious head wound - he is already unstable, but fails this check and immediately slips into unconsciousness. In the next round, he takes 7 more points of acid damage but as this is only a slight wound level, it has no additional effect. At the end of this next round, the helpless troll's limbs and torso become seriously wounded and the head wound becomes critically wounded. At the end of the following round, the trolls limbs and torso become critically wounded, the troll's head wound level increase past critical and the poor troll expires.
Granted, I've likely not done the best job of making these proposed homebrew rules as clear as possible, but how do you see this working in a real playtest situation? Because of the lethality of magic attacks, I'm thinking I should make damage half of what it normally would be.
1. Changing the core mechanic to a roll-low d20 dice pool system.
2. Getting rid of BAB.
3. Getting rid of saving throws as they currently exist.
4. Changing the hp mechanic.
5. Changing the damage and healing mechanics.
The reasons for doing so are to add additional chance, making wounds and healing more "realistic" (I know - realistic is a loaded word), and making combat much more serious.
So, rather than roll a d20 + mods and comparing to a DC (or AC for attacks), what I want to do is use the number of skill ranks (BAB in the case of combat) as the basis for the number of d20s in a dice pool (maximum of say 6d20) as well as affecting the DC. The basic DC would be your controlling attribute (e.g. if you have a STR 12 and attempting something strength-based, your DC would be 12) and you goal would be to roll 12 or lower. Skill ranks would raise the DC (making it easier to succeed). The amount you succeed by would be added to any variable effects and each additional die in the pool that is a success would add 2 more to the amount you succeed by.
For combat, the DC would be controlling attribute (STR or DEX) minus AC. AC would just be armor and other mods (no 10 + armor + mods + ...). A critical would be scored when you beat the DC by 5 or more and a fumble would occur when you fail by 5 or more.
The number of dice in your pool would be based on skill ranks (or BAB for combat). I'm thinking 0 ranks = 2d20 (but have to pick the higher of the two rolls) vs. the bare controlling attribute, 1-3 ranks = 1d20L, 4-6 ranks = 2d20L, 7-9 ranks = 3d20L, 10-12 ranks = 4d20L, 13-15 = 5d20L, and 16+ = 6d20L.
Saving throws would use this same formula, but the Fort/Ref/Will bonus would act as the "skill rank."
Initiative would be based both on a flat encumbrance-based number and on how successful you are at beating your Dex check (2 x the amount you are successful by).
Armor would, as previously mentioned, not start at 10 (so a guy with Plate Armor, a heavy steel shield, and Dex 10 would have AC 11 (+9 armor + 2 shield +0 Dex). But, armor would provide DR at the rate of 1/2 AC - so this example would have AC 11, DR 5.
Weapons would, instead of using the crit multiplier to do extra damage, use that as a penetration value. Damage would be subtracted by the DR multiplied by the penetration.
Hit points would not go up with level. They would be based on a flat formula of [10 + STR + 2 x CON]/4. This base would then have multipliers that would be trip points to compare against damage to determine wounds (light, moderate, serious, critical) that would vary by hit location (head .
So, using an example monster, it'd have stats as follows (only relevant stats shown for illustrative purposes):
Troll
Base Initiative 15 (Light encumbrance), Perception DC 12 (2d20L)
AC 6, touch 1, flat-footed 4 (+2 Dex, +5 natural, -1 size), DR 3/acid or fire
Fort DC 23 (2d20L), Ref DC 14 (1d20L), Will DC 9 (1d20L)
base hp 19
(head 1, 10, 19, 28) / torso (1, 19, 38, 57) / each limb (1, 19, 28, 38)
Melee bite DC 21 (2d20L), dmg 9, pen 1; 2 claws DC 21 (2d20L), dmg 8, pen 1
Special Attack rend (2 claws, dmg 10, pen 1)
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 23, Int 6, Wis 9, Cha 6
BAB +4 (2d20L), CMB DC 21 (2d20L), CMD 12
Let's say the troll were to attack a 6th level human fighter NPC (Dueling Sword Fighter) who has gotten ahead of the rest of his party - I'm not going to bother showing his converted stats for the below example of combat.
The Troll rolls initiative: His base init is 15. He rolls 2d20L and gets a 13 and a 20. His 13 is lower than his init base by 2, so his initiative is 15 + 2 x 2 = 19.
The NPC rolls a 19 and a 5, so his initiative is 15 + (2 x 10) = 35.
The Fighter attacks first using his dueling sword. His DC is 18 (using Dex due to Weapon Finesse) + 1 (Weapon Focus) - AC 6 = 13. He rolls a 12 (success) and a 19. His damage is 9 + 1 (margin of success) - 3 (DR) * 1 (pen) = 7 points of damage, to the Troll's left elbow/forearm. This is above the light threshold of 1, but below the moderate threshold of 19. A slight wound to the left arm will reduce his dice pool by one for any activity using that limb.
Now, it is the Troll's turn to attack. He begins with a bite (DC 21 - AC 11 = 10). He rolls an 8 and a 16. His damage = 9 + 2 - DR 4 * pen 1 = 7 to the fighter's right shoulder - a slight wound. On first claw attack (right claw), he rolls a 4 and a 5, beating DC 10. He does (8 + 6 (margin of success) + 2 (2nd die is also a success)) * 2 (critical due to beating roll by 5 or more) - DR 4 * pen 1 = 28 points of damage to the fighter's right hip/thigh. The damage exceeds the critical threshold for the limb. The fighter immediately enters into shock and is unable to take any other actions during the round. He must make a Fort save or begin bleeding out - with his rolls of 7, 16, and 20 against DC 12, he succeeds. Because of the horrific nature of the wound, he is immediately knocked down and loses the use of the leg until healed. Luckily the damage doesn't exceed 2x the critical wound threshold, otherwise he'd have a 50% chance of the leg having been catastrophically amputated. The troll now uses his 2nd claw attack but can only roll 1d20 instead of 2d20 because of the wound inflicted on him by the fighter. He rolls a 1 - a critical hit against the fighter (DC 21 + 4 (fighter in shock) - AC 11 = 14) and does (8 + 13) * 2 - DR 4 * pen 1 = 38 hit points to the fighter's lower abdomen - a serious wound. He has to roll a Will save to avoid going into shock, but since he is already in shock, he becomes unstable if he fails instead - he gets a 3, 5, and 12 - still managing to avoid bleeding out.
So let's stop here for a moment. The troll has a slight wound to his left arm (which reduces his dice pool by 1 for any actions using that arm). The fighter has a slight wound to his right shoulder, a critical leg wound, and a serious wound to his stomach. Let's say, for illustrative purposes, that the troll's rend attack causes another slight wound to the fighter's right shoulder. Because he has two wounds of the same level to that area, it is additive and turns into a moderate wound to the shoulder. He has to make a Fort save or begin bleeding out - he rolls two 11s and a 16. This guy just won't die... At the beginning of the next round, he can try to crawl away, but otherwise he is likely going to be killed.
Cue the fighter's buddies who were in the other room and come charging in. They beat the troll in initiative. The Rogue immediately performs first aid (DC = Wis 15 + 4 ranks in heal - 1 for the moderate wound, - 2 for the serious wound, and -3 for the critical wound = DC 13) He rolls and gets a 1 and a 2. His margin of success is 12 (13 - 1) + 2 (due to the second success) = 14 and since he rolled better by 5 or more on his initial success, it is a critical success. The GM decides this means that none of the wounds will get infected. The cleric casts a cure critical wounds - this heals the leg wound to serious, and heals the other wounds - the moderate wound becomes light and the serious wound becomes moderate. The wizard lobs an acidic spray at the Troll, doing 20 points of damage to every part of the troll (no DR). Each limb and the torso has a moderate wound, while the troll's head suffers a serious wound. The troll has to roll 5 Will saves for the moderate wounds. His first check is a success, but none of the others are not - and they all fail by 5 or more - the first failure puts him into shock and the subsequent failure makes him unstable and begin bleeding out. The troll also has to make a Will save for the serious head wound - he is already unstable, but fails this check and immediately slips into unconsciousness. In the next round, he takes 7 more points of acid damage but as this is only a slight wound level, it has no additional effect. At the end of this next round, the helpless troll's limbs and torso become seriously wounded and the head wound becomes critically wounded. At the end of the following round, the trolls limbs and torso become critically wounded, the troll's head wound level increase past critical and the poor troll expires.
Granted, I've likely not done the best job of making these proposed homebrew rules as clear as possible, but how do you see this working in a real playtest situation? Because of the lethality of magic attacks, I'm thinking I should make damage half of what it normally would be.
