Proposal: Lore Warden

Systole · Jan 8, 2014

I'd like to propose Lore Warden as a fighter archetype for LPF.

Basically, it's one of the only archetypes based around a smart but non-magical warrior.

Maidhc O Casain · Jan 9, 2014

This looks OK to me. I'll wait for any discussion to see if I missed anything, but my initial inclination is to approve.

jkason · Jan 9, 2014

It definitely doesn't seem overpowered to me, at least, especially since it seems like you wind up having to go a little more MAD to make it work well. The light armor only element sounds like it's probably geared for ranged fighters, though I may be reading that wrong.

I'd like to hear opinions from folks with better game math heads than me, but I'm inclined to allow it. E'n could probably use a fighting academy that was, you know, academic.

Systole · Jan 9, 2014

The big attraction of Lore Warden is that it's a dip class. You can use it to grab a feat, gain full BAB, and get a bunch of class skills. Offsetting this is that you're putting your progression in your main class behind by a level or two.

If you look at Mirra (who is probably one of the characters that stands to gain the most from a dip into Lore Warden), she's 10 or 12 new class skills, half of which are Knowledges. Meanwhile she's giving up a level of extracts and bombs. I could do essentially the same thing with bard, except that I'd be trading BAB for some bard spells, which I don't think fit the character concept.

Aura · Jan 9, 2014

I was going to say 'multiclass fodder', but you essentially beat me to it. That said, I don't think the issue is whether it's overpowered, but whether it can stand on its own.

It kinda does what Inquisitor does, albeit without magic. I was thinking something along lines of a Bard(Archaeologist) multiclass with it.

Systole · Jan 9, 2014

Aura said:
I was going to say 'multiclass fodder', but you essentially beat me to it. That said, I don't think the issue is whether it's overpowered, but whether it can stand on its own.

It kinda does what Inquisitor does, albeit without magic. I was thinking something along lines of a Bard(Archaeologist) multiclass with it.

It could stand on its own with a Combat Maneuver build, which needs Int for its feat progression anyway. With the right traits, you could also use it as a more martial and less sneaky skillmonkey than your average rogue. That said, it definitely seems to be a dip class to me, except it trades the bardic stuff for BAB.

Aura · Jan 10, 2014

I'd considered the Combat Maneuver build and rejected it as viable due to the lost AC compared to the base fighter. However, as long as you're not forced into a tanking role, perhaps a striker role (doing more damage than a base Fighter) with Combat Maneuver support would be viable.

Don't get me wrong, I find it interesting, and not overpowered. I'm just thinking we won't see one of these go to an upper level, single classed.

Systole · Jan 10, 2014

True, but you won't see an Unbreakable taken all the way up either, and that's a fighter dip archetype that needs no approval and has seen use in LPF.

(Note: I'm not vigorously arguing for the approval of Lore Warden. I just like to debate.)

Aura · Jan 10, 2014

No worries. If I had approval power, I wouldn't withhold approval of an archetype over this sort of issue, anyway. I would, however, encourage judges to approve.

I have a bard/lore warden worked up in my head. Seems ok to me. Adds shield, a few spells, acrobatics as a class skill, and either a KN bonus or, if you take Daredevil, an acrobatics bonus. Both fold with the Lore Warden nicely. Saves synergize nicely as well.