2e wizard for the record and balance comparrasions

Ok, so I'm going to sit down and draw up a 2e wizard, this is mostly just a thought exercise but it is men to test if wizards gained too much in the 3e upgrade

I will use Method V: Roll four six-sided dice (4d6). Discard the lowest die and total the remaining three. Repeat this five more times, then assign the six numbers to the character's abilities however you want. This is a fast method that gives you a good character, but you can still get low scores (after all, you could roll 1s on all four dice!).

I rolled 11,12,14,14,15,16

I will be human, so no mods

STR 11 Normal None 40 115 6 2%
Dex 12 no mods
CON 15 +1 90% 94% 0 Nil
Int 16 5 8th 70% 11
Wis 14 0 1st 0%
Cha 14 6 +1 +2

So the best I will ever have is 8th level spells (no wish for me) and I get no bonus to attacks (dex or str) or AC...

I can only learn 11 spells per level and only have a 70% chance to learn a spell.

my stats will most likely never go up, but could go down in play. SO that is that.

next class...

I get 1d4hp (My DMs 9 out of 10 times let me max 1st level) so 4hp and 10 AC and thac0 20 and some proficiencies:

I get 1 weapon Prof now and a second one at level 6. If I use a weapon I'm not prof in I take -5
I get 4 non weapon prof and get a second one at level 3.

Engineering cost 2 slots Intelligence -3 (roll below a 13)
Spellcraft Cost 1 slot Intelligence -2 (roll below 14)
Direction Sense COst 1 slot Wisdom +1 (roll below 15)

and I will take Quarter staff. It does 1d6 damage to med and large targets

now my spell book size isn't listed in the PHB so I don't know how many spells I have in my book, but I do know I can only cast 1 once.... I'll be nice and just take:

Magic missile
Detect Magic
Identify
Cantrip

I will prep based on my day to come, adventuring days will be magic missile, and town days will be cantrip, the other two will only be if needed...



lets level him up a bit... level 5

+4d4hp (I rolled well 2,4,3,2) so I have 15hp
I now have 4 1st level spells 2 2nd level spells and 1 3rd

edit: as per below I forgot +1 con so I start with 5hp and at level 5 have 20...

This is an interesting display. (I haven't built a 2e PC since 2000.) I think you would have been better off with darts or daggers, though, especially the latter as it is melee and ranged.

I had forgotten that some NWPs took multiple slots.

well still looking for spell book info I came across this:

Memorization is not a thing that happens immediately. The wizard must have a clear head gained from a restful night's sleep and then has to spend time studying his spell books. The amount of study time needed is 10 minutes per level of the spell being memorized. Thus, a 9th-level spell (the most powerful) would require 90 minutes of careful study. Clearly, high-level spellcasters do not lightly change their memorized spells.

Click to expand...

so at 1st level it only takes me 10 mins to prep my spells

at 5th 110 mins... just shy of 2 hours to prep my spells

I also found I get my bonus languages as more non weapon slots, so that means I have 5 more things to learn..

I will just take Elven and Draconic and an Acnietn language for 3 and
Herbalism Cost 2 slots 2 Intelligence -2

(Psi)SeveredHead said:

This is an interesting display. (I haven't built a 2e PC since 2000.) I think you would have been better off with darts or daggers, though, especially the latter as it is melee and ranged.

I had forgotten that some NWPs took multiple slots.

Click to expand...

I had forgotten that as well. I will also say I was going to take a cross bow, but it isn't allowed.

so I started thinking how this spell prep changes things...

I took a high level (12) and gave a rign of wizardry 2 (not that over powered) to see how long it would take to prep...

4 (40mins) 8 (160 mins) 4 (120mins) 4 (160mins) 4 (200mins) 1 (60 mins)

740 mins to prep...12 hours and twenty mins

even if we take the ring away (-80 mins) it is still 11 hours to prep... a whole day.

No 20 min work day for him because an 8 hour rest isn't what he needs he needs a full day to come back at full

GMforPowergamers said:

so I started thinking how this spell prep changes things...

I took a high level (12) and gave a rign of wizardry 2 (not that over powered) to see how long it would take to prep...

4 (40mins) 8 (160 mins) 4 (120mins) 4 (160mins) 4 (200mins) 1 (60 mins)

740 mins to prep...12 hours and twenty mins

even if we take the ring away (-80 mins) it is still 11 hours to prep... a whole day.

No 20 min work day for him because an 8 hour rest isn't what he needs he needs a full day to come back at full

Click to expand...

That doesn't stop the 20 minute work day. Blow all spells, rest 8 hours, memorize for 12 hours. Repeat.

You need something else to stop the 20 minute work day. IMX, (I only played 1e, not 2e, but they were pretty similar) about half of your spells were spent on "just in case" spells, and about half were really usable regularly.

Also, don't you have +1 hp/level due to CON?

PS

Meanwhile your 3E counterpart gets:

To use a crossbow

A selection of feats to boost casting power

The added 0 level spell slots which make many of those 1st level spells take up a lesser slot.

Access to cheap scrolls and wands meaning that getting to prep only a few spells per day is a trivial limitation.

Access to other magic items of his/her choosing that can be custom selected to boost INT or defense.

To move in the same round a spell is cast and easily avoid spell interruption.


These are all core RAW advantages before we start diving into prestige/splat based power-ups.

GMforPowergamers said:

my stats will most likely never go up, but could go down in play. SO that is that.

Click to expand...

2e had magic items that could do the trick, and they were not uncommon in play (by way of published modules), as I recall it.

ExploderWizard said:

Meanwhile your 3E counterpart gets:
...
Access to other magic items of his/her choosing that can be custom selected to boost INT or defense.

Click to expand...

You only get the things of your choosing at the expense of feats and XP through crafting items. The RAW suggests that items of a particular cost or under should be available in towns of a certain size - but that's not advice to the GM, not a guarantee to the player.

Umbran said:

You only get the things of your choosing at the expense of feats and XP through crafting items. The RAW suggests that items of a particular cost or under should be available in towns of a certain size - but that's not advice to the GM, not a guarantee to the player.

Click to expand...

The sample PCs in Enemies & Allies (3.0) and the NPC Codex (Pathfinder) all have these expected items. Same with the sample NPCs of all 11 base classes in the back of the DMG. The Big Six was part of 3.x from the start.

(Funnily enough, optimal equipment aside, many of these PCs and NPCs were staggering poorly-built. Lidda didn't take Weapon Finesse. The 15th-level version of her took Strength-boosting items just to desperately boost her attack bonus. I sure hope the rogue wasn't playtested that way!)

Storminator said:

Also, don't you have +1 hp/level due to CON?

PS

Click to expand...

you are correct... so 5hp