Life came to Earth from comet?

Dannyalcatraz

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From Dexy's Cosmic Runners

Come on Aliens
Fermi's Paradox means (what it means)
At this moment you'd be everywhere
But your stellar address
In space I confess
Seems so empty
Oh, come on Aliens

Edit: damn it- wrong thread...
 
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Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
Right, exactly. Is fire-use causation of humanity, or consequence? Is it a tool, or more than a tool? Ants don't have radio either, but not many people would argue radio is our defining feature - it's a tool we use.
But did we manage to come up with the radio because way back when some smart ape mastered fire?

Burnng stuff is still very much at the heart of humanity. We're the fire obsess ape. What do we do with petroleum, natural gas, coal, if not burn a lot of them? I'll let the phys heads decide if fission is similar to "burning".

The weird exemption may be AIs. Above a certain point, I fail to see what would keep two AIs from becoming one (it's all just code, and given sufficient processing power and storage, you can run all the code you want), at which point you might well end up with something that could reasonably be called a solar mono-intelligence, and mimic a civilization.
A sense of individuality? In other words selfishness.
 

But did we manage to come up with the radio because way back when some smart ape mastered fire?

Burnng stuff is still very much at the heart of humanity. We're the fire obsess ape. What do we do with petroleum, natural gas, coal, if not burn a lot of them? I'll let the phys heads decide if fission is similar to "burning".

A sense of individuality? In other words selfishness.

The key thing of "fire" might be that it is a way to generate energy. Fission might not be burning, but it has the same goal - getting energy.*

I suppose that is somethnig that every type of civilization needs, whether it has to start with fire, I am not sure. Probably is a good method for carbon-based life. Maybe there could be some kind of weird group of chemicals at an high-energetic environment (say, a brown dwarf or even a star) that doesn't use fire but some other process that generates extra energy to do whatever needs to be done. (Maybe a Sci-Fi writer might now get the idea of creating an alien lifeform that actually needs something to get rid of energy/heat, though i am not sure that such a tale would stand up to thermodyanmic considerations). That said, the problem with "weird group of chemicals" is - chances are good these elements are more rare than carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, and thus life of that sort is less likely.

*) Isn't that also a reason why we cook food? Are we not able to bring the necessary energy to process raw meat? Or is it somethnig else?
 

Umbran

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YOu know, all this mention of "fire" might be better replaced with "fire" when we are talking about the tool humans use and "oxidation reaction" when we are talking about the chemistry going on in our cells.

Maybe there could be some kind of weird group of chemicals at an high-energetic environment (say, a brown dwarf or even a star) that doesn't use fire but some other process that generates extra energy to do whatever needs to be done.

Well, Robert L Forward has written "Dragon's Egg", which discusses life on the surface of a neutron star. If I recall correctly, those creatures don't have a "biochemistry", as on the surface of the neutron star, what we think of as chemicals and molecules do not exist.

(Maybe a Sci-Fi writer might now get the idea of creating an alien lifeform that actually needs something to get rid of energy/heat, though i am not sure that such a tale would stand up to thermodyanmic considerations).

You already do - if your body did not shed excess heat, you would bake and die. Why do you think the summer is uncomfortable, and why do you think you sweat?

That said, the problem with "weird group of chemicals" is - chances are good these elements are more rare than carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, and thus life of that sort is less likely.

Well, silicon has similar chemistry to carbon, and seems to be pretty common. However, while similar, it is somewhat less varied in what compounds it will make. Boron has even more varied chemical properties than carbon, but boron seems to be pretty rare in the universe. But, you could at least imagine a silicon-based life form, instead of carbon based.

Not all Earthly life forms need oxygen for energy. But, systems that have an appropriate agent like oxygen to accept electrons at the end of the metabolic path are typically able to get more energy out of the same sources. It may be possible to substitute another chemical - like chlorine - to do the job. But, again, chlorine seems to be less common out in the universe, and chlorine has a stronger tendency to be bound up in minerals (salts, mostly), meaning it is tougher to build it up in an atmosphere.

We could also imagine life forms based on a solvent other than water - ammonia seems pretty common out there...

Isn't that also a reason why we cook food? Are we not able to bring the necessary energy to process raw meat? Or is it something else?[/SIZE]

When we started using fire, it wasn't that we were not able to bring the necessary energy to bear. However, use of fire has an effect we might consider... pre-digestion. Using fire makes it easier to access nutrients and calories in a great many foods. So, while we could bring that energy to bear, we didn't *have* to - cooking is more efficient. By cooking, we got more out of our food than animals that didn't cook, and that's a competitive advantage. We could get by with less food, or put forth greater effort on the same amounts of food we used to eat.

Now, humans have so adapted to cooking that we aren't really suited to eating a raw diet. We've lost some of the machinery - our intestines are comparatively shorter than those of other primates, our teeth aren't very impressive, and so on.
 


YOu know, all this mention of "fire" might be better replaced with "fire" when we are talking about the tool humans use and "oxidation reaction" when we are talking about the chemistry going on in our cells.



Well, Robert L Forward has written "Dragon's Egg", which discusses life on the surface of a neutron star. If I recall correctly, those creatures don't have a "biochemistry", as on the surface of the neutron star, what we think of as chemicals and molecules do not exist.
That would be an indeed very intersting thing to speculate about. Likewise - what about the early inflationary phase after the Big Bang - you mihht think the time frames don't work for "evolution", but... that might only be true for common chemical processes on earth. Maybe entire civilizations grew up in that time, and winked out when the universe got too cold - but from their perspective, when their scientists figured out that inflation of the unvierse would lead to it cooling off too much to sustain live, but even before that, their kalaubsen* will detoriate and our peloktikus-orbitals** will eat it up, so they didn't really have to worry....

You already do - if your body did not shed excess heat, you would bake and die. Why do you think the summer is uncomfortable, and why do you think you sweat?
That's not what I meant, however. More like "The theoretical Gold-Fusion machine will consume enough energy to depower our entire civilization for seconds, that fixes basically all our energy problems! Unfortunately, in the past 5 picosends, scientists said the technologicaly would be commerically viable within the next 5 picosends. We may have to stick to helium fission for the forseeable future, and we still haven't found a solution for the waste disposal."


Well, silicon has similar chemistry to carbon, and seems to be pretty common. However, while similar, it is somewhat less varied in what compounds it will make. Boron has even more varied chemical properties than carbon, but boron seems to be pretty rare in the universe. But, you could at least imagine a silicon-based life form, instead of carbon based.

Not all Earthly life forms need oxygen for energy. But, systems that have an appropriate agent like oxygen to accept electrons at the end of the metabolic path are typically able to get more energy out of the same sources. It may be possible to substitute another chemical - like chlorine - to do the job. But, again, chlorine seems to be less common out in the universe, and chlorine has a stronger tendency to be bound up in minerals (salts, mostly), meaning it is tougher to build it up in an atmosphere.

We could also imagine life forms based on a solvent other than water - ammonia seems pretty common out there...
Yes, the Wikipedia (?) article in this regard was pretty itnersting. For example, Silicium-based life that breathes Oxygen would probably need to operate at very different temperatures then carbon-based life, since it' difficult to devise a respiratory system using is basically sand (Silicium-Oxide).

This could also be another aspect of why it's difficult to detect life - it might operate on different time scales simply because the (chemical) reactions it is based on have different time frames.



*) Invented word to describe whatever a fictional primordial universe race might have in place of a sun.
**) Invented word to describe whatever a fictional primordial universe race might have in place of a planet.
 

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