Affairs

Janx

Hero
And what about the guy that made a mistake once and would never try to seduce your - or anyone elses' - wife? He should be cast out as well? That's the problem with this. You hurt decent folks out of a selfish and silly fear. You really don't trust your wife enough to spurn another man's advances? That's on you, bro. Not your wife, not the imaginary man - you. And it's not fair to either of them.

As I pointed out, I'm not inclined to go chase down Scott for his past indiscretion.

And I am not suffering from a distrust of my wife under normal circumstances.

But there are people who are pros at the art of getting into people's pants. As they say, "a shoulder to cry on becomes a @#%^ to ride on." So there are people who take advantage of such opportunities that causes harm to existing relationships.

As joked about on the last season of Arrested Development, open marriages don't actually work as a ditch to "save a marriage." One person gets laid. The other person gets hurt.

We might not be made or good at lifetime monogamy. But we also may not be good at juggling multiple relationships.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
First, a disclaimer: My feelings won't get hurt mentioning my youthful indiscretion. I put it out there, It is of the past, maybe someone will learn from my mistake.

second, I enjoy intellectual discourse that leads to a hopeful change toward the better.

Third i agree to the benifits of a closed relationship: 'protecting the herd from socialpathes, protecting the marriage bed from STD's, broken hearts, fractured trust and a whole host of other problems that happen.

but having said that,

I must give a peer to peer warning that this subject has the easy potential of crossing a very thin line that could otherwise get someone in trouble by the moderators, whose concern is for the community at large, and may easily get 2 offending parties banned. I would not like to see anyone ban-hammered. I have seen it happen all too often here and other places. I would like to recommend that this thread to be reconsidered as a viable topic of discussion.

Thank you for everyone's consideration in advance.

Scott-might be heading home for a shot of Dewar's scotch-DeWar
 

sabrinathecat

Explorer
Never been interested in participating in that (though I did date someone who was in the middle of a divorce).
Don't want to.
Would disassociate from anyone that did.

Do what you need to do to be happy, but be frickin' responsible about it. Own up to whatever.

Sadly, I have become aware of what other people are up to far too many times. I just don't need that kind of information about other people. I'm not involved. Don't involve me.

Sort it. Get it done. And keep it to yourselves.
 

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
Because it is bad. When you sleep with someone, you sleep with every STD person that person has slept with.

Being promiscuous is tactically a bad idea just from the goal of avoiding spreading disease.

More families would rather their SO not bring home a box of Herpes or have to slice off a part of the income to pay for extra-marital child support.
Are you familiar with the condom?

More people equate emotional bonding and exclusivity to sex than don't.
Appeal to popularity. And that remains to be actually proven.

So it really bothers them when they find out their partner has been forking the secretary after work.
We can't really change what adults or teens think. They are tainted.

We can work on the next generation though. Start teaching a fresh take on sexuality from kindergarden, give kids the information to think critically for themselves and make the decision they think is best, instead of forcing on them social values that are not really respected by people because they are not realistic values and can lead to strife.

In Sweden they have gender-neutral kindergarden and the Swiss have a very interesting take on sex education. These are steps in the right direction.

These are fundamental principles of modern society.
Not really, more of agrarian societies. The sexual revolution really shock the tree of traditions and what people call "fundamentals of society". This is just another push toward people being more free without fearing stigma.

So you might think of having sex as no more emotional than playing racket ball with somebody.
Sometimes. Sex ain't always special or always that great communion between two people. Sometimes it is just mindless fun and there is nothing wrong with that.

But I highly doubt most people do.
Again with the appeal to popularity that is back up by no fact.

Or to look at it slightly differently. Once somebody is having sex with you because they are in love with you, the chemical chain of stuff triggers emotions that would upset them if you didn't feel the same way about it by being non-exclusive.
People have been getting broken hearts for quite sometime. It is the risk of socializing and getting romantically involved with people.

It's not rational that they should feel any right to exclusivity to you, but it happens.
Well that is there problem, now isn't? Not something society should push on people, right?
 

EscherEnigma

Adventurer
That's what divorce or breaking up with somebody is for.
Pretty sure that if everyone who's ever had an affair was divorced our divorce rate would skyrocket higher then it already has.

Which just proves that the reason queers like me are destructive to marriage is that after you see how fabulous we are at it while flaunting your rules (or at least as you think we are. After all, we're all just dirty man-sluts) you get jealous and want some of that too.

Or, to put it another way... humans, as a rule, are pretty bad at monogamy. Any way you want to slice it, we've been breaking the rules regularly (and with gusto!) for a long, long time. Now-a-days divorce and separation are more practical options, and it's talked about more. But don't make the mistake of thinking affairs and "cheating" are a new thing, or even more common, then they used to be. All that's new is the openness.

Not really sure what my point was other then forgiveness, compassion and understanding are a lot more humane traits to focus on then petty vengeance and stigmatization. And perhaps if non-monogamous couples weren't so ostracized then people who struggle with it, like, say, half the men on the planet, wouldn't feel the need to to try and hide it and pretend to be good at monogamy which leads to the inevitable pain when, big surprise, they cheat!

Long story short: when you put someone in a situation where they're punished for being honest (admitting that they don't do monogamous relationships) and punish them for trying to hide it (getting caught cheating), you've put them in a catch-22. And when you've put someone in a catch-22? You really shouldn't be surprised when they say ":):):):) you and your rules, I'm gonna be selfish 'cause you're gonna punish me anyway". You have to give people a reason to buy-in, you have to give them an incentive to cooperate. "OBEY OR NOT, YOU'LL BE PUNISHED EITHER WAY" isn't it.

When you sleep with someone, you sleep with every STD person that person has slept with.
As much as sexual health and safe practices are important, I hate this line. It portrays sex as this filthy infectious thing that's bad. Yes, use condoms. Yes, get tested (regularly). But this? This is just an attempt at slut-shaming.
 

Viking Bastard

Adventurer
I've never cheated, nor have I been cheated on (that I know of, anyway), but I have been cheated with once years ago; been one of those "other men".

And when I found out she was married (which became quite apparent once I followed her into her home--their home), I went for it anyway, and without any real hesitation. I wasn't initiating cheating--she obviously had made that decision (*washes hands*).

Actually, I hadn't thought about this for years until this thread. Now that I'm married family man myself, I'm more ambivalent on my younger self's attitude.
 

delericho

Legend
But who said you need to sware an oath about monogamy to be with someone?

Ah, but there's the rub. You don't need to swear that oath. If you want to go sleeping around, go have at it!

But the social convention is that if you're "in a relationship" with someone then by default you're in an exclusive relationship with that person. And that's certainly true with a marriage, where that oath has indeed been sworn.

And, even so, if you want to go against that social convention, you have the right to do so - just be sure to inform your partner so that he/she can decide whether to continue the relationship with you. If you do not, then that is indeed deception.

(And by all means go and argue that we should have a different social convention. I have no great interest either way. But for now, and until the convention is changed, it is what it is.)
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
Unless the problem is the false need for controlling people'S sexuality in the first place. Not sleeping around.

Have you considered that people are conditioned to think sleeping with other people is bad?
They are of course, but it isn't just a social phenomenon. Monogamy is widespread through the animal world (not universal, but any means, but widespread) and clearly does have a legitimate evolutionary purpose.

There are clearly a number of different social elements that have effectively demonized human sexuality for various purposes, but that's really a tangent. As [MENTION=22424]delericho[/MENTION] notes, open relationships or other forms of sexual activity that don't involve a committed relationship cannot be the source of "cheating" or an "affair". If someone doesn't want to be in a monogamous partnership, they don't have to be. If they are, then they incur certain obligations, like fidelity and honesty.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
This can be a difficult topic for many people to reply to (myself included) because a full answer from them would bring religion into it; however, I do want to respond to two points from Goldomark and Zombie_Babies:

No I'm talking about ending the hypocrisy that leads to affairs existing. We should stop glorifying something that a lot of people can't perform (fidelity). There would be a lot less strife if we just accepted that some people need to fool around or have multple partners.

These are my thoughts on the subject, to answer BG's question.

My opinion is that if marriage were as easy as breathing or coitus, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now - the commitment of marriage IS difficult! It's why we glorify it. We also glorify firefighters and policemen in western society, because not everyone can rise to those callings and perform them day in and day out. It's why we celebrate achievers in different fields -- they are uncommon individuals, and seeing a Buffet, or Einstein, or Jordan or Baryshnikov is an example of diligence and dedication that one can aspire to. To not celebrate something BECAUSE not a lot of people can perform that level of commitment misses the point of recognizing the commitment itself.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense: break one moral 'law' and you'll break more. Let's apply that to something else, then: A man who jaywalks is a man who will slit your throat. Break one law and you'll break another - no matter how unrelated - right? Silly. It's just silly.

The problem is that your solution in no way differentiates between the two.

In my opinion it does -- your counter of Jaywalking vs. Homicide would be equating two different types of behavior, negligence to homicide, but the original quote compares one example of trustworthiness to another, lesser, example of trustworthiness (Marital Fidelity vs. Professional Fidelity). A better comparison would be Jaywalking to Running Stoplights, or intentional homicide to -- well, very little, really, western law puts it into a class by itself. In my opinion, yes, a person who cannot keep a vow to a spouse, is more likely to be unable to keep their word to a mere business partner. Not to say I wouldn't go into business with them, I'd just force 'em to sign one heck of a punitive business contract. :)

Note most people who are outspoken here are also making a distinction between the mainstream definition of "An affair" versus an open marriage, or polyamorous relationship -- one in which all parties are aware of one another and their intentions toward one another. The subject of polyamory itself is a separate -- and even more loaded -- topic, of which I can say if it works for that unit, then great! It's just one where in my firsthand knowledge has never seemed to work out very well long-term for the people involved.

My wife and I have been married for over 20 years, have never cheated on one another, never had the desire to, and barring any catastrophes I see myself growing old with her and only her. Fortunately, we also grew up in the same local community, and share similar values, so it's never been a source of conflict either. Is marriage hard? It's been damned hard at times, whether it be about money, or family tragedy, or lack of communication with one another -- but I also deem it worth it to have worked through any trouble that came our way, and the incredibly strong bond that we share, almost to being able to anticipate each other's needs without thinking. To be blessed and dedicated enough to have that bond with another person, hopefully for the rest of a lifetime, is something I deeply treasure.
 

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
They are of course, but it isn't just a social phenomenon. Monogamy is widespread through the animal world (not universal, but any means, but widespread) and clearly does have a legitimate evolutionary purpose.
3% of mammals do it. Pretty low.

There are clearly a number of different social elements that have effectively demonized human sexuality for various purposes, but that's really a tangent. As <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@delericho<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> notes, open relationships or other forms of sexual activity that don't involve a committed relationship cannot be the source of "cheating" or an "affair". If someone doesn't want to be in a monogamous partnership, they don't have to be. If they are, then they incur certain obligations, like fidelity and honesty.
Yes, it seems people like to argue against a point I never made.
 

Remove ads

Top