D&D 5E Splitting your Move - The Move-Attack-Move Dynamic

Sword of Spirit · Apr 7, 2014

Saelorn said:
If I had to guess, it's because the discrete move-type action in 3E played well with the action economy. One of the side-effects of the Next single "action" system is that a lot of things just aren't actions, or happen alongside an action; a return to Standard action and Move action would "solve" a lot of that weirdness.

While I agree that they have been (unfortunately) edging towards reintroducing complexity via the current system, I don't think move actions is a solution.

One of the things I found so refreshing about 5e in the early packets is how you didn't have to worry about why type of action something was. It was either an action or you could do it free. Movement was its own separate thing, and didn't have to be taken account of.

They've decided it needs to be a bit more complex than that, since there are spells and special abilities they want you to be able to use without taking your whole action. By the time they're done, we might end up having an action economy of Action/Bonus Action/Part of Action. I certainly don't want to allow movement to be used as another type of action.

The Crimson Binome · Apr 7, 2014

Sword of Spirit said:
They've decided it needs to be a bit more complex than that, since there are spells and special abilities they want you to be able to use without taking your whole action. By the time they're done, we might end up having an action economy of Action/Bonus Action/Part of Action. I certainly don't want to allow movement to be used as another type of action.

The thing is, if you accept all of these other sort-of-not-really-an actions, then going to a codified Standard/Move/Minor system actually reduces the complexity since you don't have to track every single independent exception.

Ruzak · Apr 7, 2014

Saelorn said:
The thing is, if you accept all of these other sort-of-not-really-an actions, then going to a codified Standard/Move/Minor system actually reduces the complexity since you don't have to track every single independent exception.

I don't think that is necessarily true. It may be that the exceptions are character specific enough that you only need to know the ones that apply to you. Most characters may only need use move+act, with exceptions being, well, exceptional. I don't know what is simpler in the long run. It depends on how many exceptions there are. 4e certainly needed the the three types of moves.

Sword of Spirit · Apr 7, 2014

So in 3.5e, was it simpler when feather fall allowed you to cast it immediately when it wasn't your turn, and you could only cast a single quickened spelled per round; or was it simpler when they created immediate and swift actions and assigned those as respective examples of the new action types?

I don't think the answer is really clear and obvious in either direction. All I can say is that it felt like it created a better game when Next was leaning away from codifying additional action types, and it seems like it's adding more mental overhead when they seem to be adding more back.

I also think the psychology of having multiple defined action types makes players look for ways to take advantage of that action. Without that definition, it is more likely a player will be satisfied and not feel like they are somehow missing out by simply using the normal action and move, with whatever extras their class happens to throw in.

But I can only talk from my own experience, and that's how I feel when I'm a player.

Ruzak · Apr 7, 2014

With individual exceptions you sometimes feel "Ooh! I'm doing something extra!"
With minor-move-standard you sometimes feel "Bummer. I didn't use my minor."

Savage Wombat · Apr 7, 2014

Ruzak said:
With individual exceptions you sometimes feel "Ooh! I'm doing something extra!"
With minor-move-standard you sometimes feel "Bummer. I didn't use my minor."

The fact that this mindset exists bothers me.

The Crimson Binome · Apr 8, 2014

Ruzak said:
With individual exceptions you sometimes feel "Ooh! I'm doing something extra!"
With minor-move-standard you sometimes feel "Bummer. I didn't use my minor."

I can't say that I ever experienced that in 3E or Pathfinder. I sometimes felt limited when I couldn't use more than one Swift action on my turn, but I never felt penalized for not having a Swift action at hand.

Ruzak · Apr 8, 2014

Saelorn said:
I can't say that I ever experienced that in 3E or Pathfinder. I sometimes felt limited when I couldn't use more than one Swift action on my turn, but I never felt penalized for not having a Swift action at hand.

I've only played a little Pathfinder, and played 3e before swift actions were codified, and so never thought much about it either. In 4e (which I like) minor actions were common enough I felt I needed to take advantage of them. When everyone else is doing multiple things on their turn you want to too. As much as I enjoyed the complex and cinematic combos this allowed, I am ready to go back to a simpler turn.

Rhenny · Apr 11, 2014

In my experience, I have found that in my games with move, standard and minor action, players would take longer to finish their turns. They would hesitate and think more about how they could add in a minor action even when they didn't have one they could use. I'm glad it is gone from the action economy default.

Tuft · Apr 11, 2014

Ruzak said:
With individual exceptions you sometimes feel "Ooh! I'm doing something extra!"
With minor-move-standard you sometimes feel "Bummer. I didn't use my minor."

This was one reason I felt like 4E combats dragged on forever when we did our test campaign, especially when minor and move actions became more complex, and involved both moves and attacks. People sat and tried planning out the optimal combo of minor-move-main-actionpoint actions to get an optimal single combat round - and with multiple moves during each such combo, every possibly opportunity action had to be taken into consideration... And suddenly it had turned into RoboRally.

D&D 5E Splitting your Move - The Move-Attack-Move Dynamic

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