Only in America

sabrinathecat said:

One of the great ironies of the US is that people who live in Washington DC have no real direct representation in the Federal government, but have to pay taxes just the same. (Technically, DC is separate from any state, so they have no senators or members of congress).

A couple months ago, I had a thread up about teenagers and responsibility. I wonder if the way High School is now handled in the US (used to be very like European Colleges), has any effect on that. Graduating High School used to be an accomplishment. When I was there, all you needed was a pulse and moderate attendance. Grades didn't matter unless you were going to college. No, really. Grades didn't matter. You could fail every class, have a parent go in a bitch that it wasn't fair, and if necessary, the principal would change the grades. All the exchange students used to laugh about how easy the classes were, but how convoluted and petty the culture was.

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On the flip side, here in Japan and Korea too, high school is insanely difficult. And I mean insane. My students would be going to extra classes at 5 am then go to school all day then back to juku until about 10 pm. Saturdays too.

But uni is a joke. I actually had students complain about getting 80% in my class because that was a terrible grade. Graduation requires little more than attendance and I've had several students who had never written more than about 500 words at a time.

Scott DeWar said:

Wights ? AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! worser than zombies!!!!!!

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Heh. The word actually means "man".

sabrinathecat said:

A couple months ago, I had a thread up about teenagers and responsibility. I wonder if the way High School is now handled in the US (used to be very like European Colleges), has any effect on that. Graduating High School used to be an accomplishment. When I was there, all you needed was a pulse and moderate attendance. Grades didn't matter unless you were going to college. No, really. Grades didn't matter. You could fail every class, have a parent go in a bitch that it wasn't fair, and if necessary, the principal would change the grades. All the exchange students used to laugh about how easy the classes were, but how convoluted and petty the culture was.

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Isn't that just the general devaluation of degrees in western society?

It also used to be an accomplishment to graduate "high school" here, giving you a considerable edge in the job market (and life in general). With rising prosperity, by the mid-70s pretty much everyone graduated high school, so having graduated high school became the new default and thus wasn't really valued any more, resulting in the bachelor degree becoming the new high school diploma. Today, most people go to university and pretty much everyone gets a bachelor degree (or equivalent), resulting in the current devaluation of the bachelor degree and a general push for everyone to finish a masters degree.

This results in an increasingly better educated society, but also creates a somewhat apathetic attitude towards that same education, because it all feels somewhat arbitrary--a lot of work for a stamp of societal approval that's losing value as you earn it.

And you can already see the same thing happening (rapidly) in Eastern Europe and other "up-and-coming" countries. It's a sign of prosperity.

*shrug*

pedr said:

I can't say I've studied comparative education systems, but the US practice of relying almost entirely on teacher-awarded grades to judge student achievement is odd from a British perspective. While student performance lower down the school system is monitored mainly by teachers, the important judgements about qualifications are made by (or under supervision of) external bodies. 16 year olds sit externally set and marked exams to be awarded qualifications which reflect a national standard, and the same at 17 and 18. While teacher-marked work might contribute to those qualifications, the marking is moderated to ensure comparable marking standards. There's no concept of "graduating high school"; the question is what GCSEs and A-levels you passed, and with what grades.

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As has already been pointed out by [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION], the US has plenty of those. I mean, what High School drama doesn't mention the SATs?

But the trend in international education is to move away from centralized grading. In Iceland, we used to have similar centralized tests (I took them), but we disbanded them a few years ago (because current thought is that while it makes it easier for the government and schools to evaluate students, it leads to worse education).

Viking Bastard said:

But the trend in international education is to move away from centralized grading. In Iceland, we used to have similar centralized tests (I took them), but we disbanded them a few years ago (because current thought is that while it makes it easier for the government and schools to evaluate students, it leads to worse education).

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And some assessment testing (mostly the ones that reward the teacher or school in some manner) create an environment where instructional time is dedicated to preparing for the test

sabrinathecat said:

Creationism taught as a science

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It is?
Where?
In what public school?

Something I find weird in other countries is the blind acceptance of man-made global warming.

Morrus said:

No religion or politics please, folks. You know how this works.

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Well, sabrina brought up creationism, and claimed it was taught in schools as science. Isn't that "religion"? Why doesn't she get a red letter?

And I did not know that "global warming" was "politics" and/or "religion".
I just thought it was bad science and current events.
Ah well.

STIGMATADOR said:

Well, sabrina brought up creationism, and claimed it was taught in schools as science. Isn't that "religion"? Why doesn't she get a red letter?

And I did not know that "global warming" was "politics" and/or "religion".
I just thought it was bad science and current events.
Ah well.

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Nobody mentioned you. The mention of creationism is what prompted my post. That said, please do not respond to moderation in-thread. You can PM or email a moderator if you have queries about the rules here.

frogimus said:

And some assessment testing (mostly the ones that reward the teacher or school in some manner) create an environment where instructional time is dedicated to preparing for the test

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Oh god I LOATHE standardised testing. Teaching to the test is the bane of education. Grrrr.

Hussar said:

Oh god I LOATHE standardised testing. Teaching to the test is the bane of education. Grrrr.

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OTOH, how else to find out if someone knows enough baseline factual or methodological info for competency within a given field?

It may not be as useful to academics, but it sure as heck matters in proffesional fields.

Still, I agree that teaching to the test is problematic. Teach the subjects- if the students learn, they learn. If not, its time for repetition of a class or tutorial efforts.