Can you have out of body experiences?

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
As for something being 'new age' might it be a good idea to look at something a bit more rigorous?
I agree, but I can't find any. They often mention studies or researches, but never give references.

However these issues are, for the most, about people's beliefs
Anyone can believe anything, but that doesn't make it true.

and you can bet that there are people salivating at the lips for a fight on this, just look at the reactions on the side, it seems that one thing the human race cannot get out of is fighting over beliefs. 'I'm right and you're wrong'.Science hasn't got us very far away from that, has it?
Umm... You're the only who is figthing over what science is/can do.

You've mention extra-scientific facts. People are sceptical and want to see those facts. I do not think it is unreasonable or trying to pick a fight to be sceptical.

People might be defensive, that I give you, but you make claims that go against commonly accepted facts and do not back them. You shouldn't be surprised to see people asking for proof.
 
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Zombie_Babies

First Post
As predicted you have taken this tactic. I wonder why ;-)

You know that it's impossible to win this game from any position but your own because the game has already been rigged. The evidence for out of body experiences is not considered as evidence by the scientific community, so its game over before it ever begins isn't it? So excuse me if I don't take part in an exercise in futility.

If you are truly interested in the research that's been done then start looking for it, not a fight.

Taken what tactic? A commonly accepted approach to debate? Yeah, I'll cop to that. I'm only asking you to join us.

At any rate, you say I'll refute your evidence without looking at it and then a couple lines later tell me there's evidence I'd accept. Umm ... why not just post this evidence? I'm not looking for a fight at all, by the way, I'm looking for some respect. You made an argument so you should support it. Asking me to do your legwork is unacceptable.
 
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sabrinathecat

Explorer
Well I think we both know that I'm completely wasting my time here because right from the start people made their minds up to disregard what I was saying and portray every little bit in the worst possible light, truth of it be damned. At least you have looked, which is something. As for something being 'new age' might it be a good idea to look at something a bit more rigorous? Possibly the researcher you were looking at has become convinced of the existence of an afterlife (and so on) as a result of the research that's been done... I'm speculating here without knowing what it was you looked at, but it is entirely possible. Certainly what I have read on this has made it clear to me that there is much more going on than mainstream science (and the atheism that underpins it) can satisfactorily explain. However these issues are, for the most, about people's beliefs and you can bet that there are people salivating at the lips for a fight on this, just look at the reactions on the side, it seems that one thing the human race cannot get out of is fighting over beliefs. 'I'm right and you're wrong'. Science hasn't got us very far away from that, has it?

You're trying to argue your point on an internet bulletin board. As has been stated, you are already wasting your time, by definition.
I cannot expand on what I said, because on this board it would be considered bashing religion, which earns demerits and possible banning. I'm a lapsed agnostic: I don't know if there's a supreme deity, and I don't care. If there is and it wants to talk to me, it will. So far, it hasn't. If there isn't one, it won't. DONE.
Atheism is what it is. Sadly, there is a down side to it, but out of respect for other beliefs, I will NOT detail that here.

If you are so convinced, why don't you do a study? Why don't you do the research? If you don't have the money, why don't you start a kickstarter or other fundraising to do the research?
Science and scientists in general will accept anything that is presented to them in the proper way. Use their weapons against them.
Religion is religion.
Science is science.
Many (if not most) scientists are also religious.
There is overlap.
There is conflict.
You decide for yourself which has priority in your life.
If you want to persuade others to join you, you'll have to be far more convincing than you have been. There is a style and argument to debate. There is even an art to it. This is a board with a lot of sci-fi fans, many of whom use science and logic as the basis of their lives. If you want them to accept something non-scientific and provide data (in fact, you refuse to provide any data for any of your claims), you may be fighting an uphill battle, or trying to fight it in the wrong place.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Well I think we both know that I'm completely wasting my time here because right from the start people made their minds up to disregard what I was saying and portray every little bit in the worst possible light, truth of it be damned.

That is not what is happening at all.

You come in and say, "This thing really happens!"
We say, "Oh? I am skeptical, as other explanations seem more likely. What's your evidence that this happens?"
You: "It totally happens! There is evidence!"
Us: "What evidence? Was the evidence gathered carefully?"
You: "You're painting this is the worst possible light!"

We are asking questions, and asking that your assertions be put through the same process we put everything else through. I put "cold fusion" through similar skepticism, for example. Test. Peer review. Prove it. The burden to provide initial evidence is on the one asserting they have the truth. The rest of us then review the evidence, do our own tests. If the tests all indicate the same things, we come to agree that this is, in fact, truth.

To repeat a wise idea, "You have the right to your own opinion. You don't have a right to your own facts." What is in question here are not beliefs - what is in question is what happens, whether or not we believe in it.
 

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