Should you be able to cut a beholder's eyestalks off?

Man, we knew we were going up against a beholder so we studied what its eyestalks do according to historical accounts. We put on death ward, a spell to protect against being charmed, spell immunity against flesh to stone, freedom of movement to prevent being held, and we've got healing magic to handle most of the rest. But dang, that telekinesis ray is going to fling us to our deaths. Our first priority should be taking it out.

Archer, when you figure out which eyestalk uses telekinesis, hit it with as many arrows as possible. See if we can mangle it enough so it can't aim.



So, should that be possible, in D&D Next, or in Pathfinder, or other RPGs? Maybe not just eyestalks, but how about knee-capping a giant so he can't move as fast, or chopping off the snake tail of a chimera? How should it work, mechanically?

In theory, I believe it should be possible, and there are many rpgs where you can choose a hit location; in some of those, decapitation and loss of limb is possible.


I'm not so sure I believe it should be possible in the context of D&D though. There are a lot of things I like about how other games handle things, but some of those things that I like (and hit locations is one) don't always translate into D&D with the best results. If I translated all of the things I like about a different game into D&D, I eventually ask myself why I'm not playing that other game.

RangerWickett said:

Man, we knew we were going up against a beholder so we studied what its eyestalks do according to historical accounts. We put on death ward, a spell to protect against being charmed, spell immunity against flesh to stone, freedom of movement to prevent being held, and we've got healing magic to handle most of the rest. But dang, that telekinesis ray is going to fling us to our deaths. Our first priority should be taking it out.

Archer, when you figure out which eyestalk uses telekinesis, hit it with as many arrows as possible. See if we can mangle it enough so it can't aim.



So, should that be possible, in D&D Next, or in Pathfinder, or other RPGs? Maybe not just eyestalks, but how about knee-capping a giant so he can't move as fast, or chopping off the snake tail of a chimera? How should it work, mechanically?

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Not in the "basic" rules. I don't mean not in the core rules or in the Player's Handbook, though. What I mean is such rules are more complex, and it's probably not a good idea to have a character be able to use that ability if it's not their "cup of tea".

For instance, I would be happy if there was a feat that gave you a bonus to hit against anyone wearing heavy armor while using a mace, hammer or axe-like weapon. "Realistic", but more to the point, since it's a feat, not every hammer-wielder would have it. It's also making the game a bit more complicated. If you're not interested, don't take it.

Same with crippling the giant. Some characters won't know how to do that, because they're too honorable, never practiced fighting that way, or whatever the reason. (If this were 3e or 5e, I'd recommend a feat to allow this kind of street fighting. There's at-will powers and stances that let fighters do this in 4e, plus some rogue encounter powers.)

Chopping off a chimera's tail, cutting off a beholder's eye stalk, or shooting an ogre in the eyes to cause permanent blindness is something that, IMO, shouldn't be allowed. Called shot rules have so many problems. Winning a battle by lopping off parts is boring unless the monster is specifically designed for that (among other things, this means the threat level goes down during the fight, reducing the tension in a bad way).

The ogre example came from one of my own characters back in 2e. I was playing a 13th-level ranger who basically couldn't miss. The DM let me make called shots, so I was shooting ogres in each eye, and yet it had no effect. They just took their damage and continued to attack (if they were still alive, that is). DMs who allow these rules tend to regret them.

I think Pathfinder does have an optional hit location rule in one of the books. I vaguely remember it, but I'm not familiar enough with Pathfinder as a whole to know where it is.

Generally speaking, I believe anything you can describe narratively should be supported one way or another...

For the specific case of called shots, I am not sure I would use a general rule (which typically can back-fire the players, if the DM starts having the monsters do the same), but for some specific monsters it does make for some dramatic tactics!

I don't know how it could be implemented best. Definitely something along the line of: if you try something that can seriously hamper the monster (thus grant you a significant advantage for the rest of the combat), then it should be somewhat more difficult than a regular attack. IOW, you trade probability of hit with better benefits when successful.

The Book of Iron Might by Mike Mearls (for Malhavoc Press) has IMHO an excellent system for called shots.

And, what are those rules, generally?

Sure.

A Beholder has x hit points.

Each time you knock down his hit points by some factor, it loses an eye stalk.

Badaboom.

RangerWickett said:

So, should that be possible, in D&D Next, or in Pathfinder, or other RPGs? Maybe not just eyestalks, but how about knee-capping a giant so he can't move as fast, or chopping off the snake tail of a chimera? How should it work, mechanically?

Click to expand...

I think called shots and limb damage penalties should be a thing. I think permanent damage (such as severing and destroying body parts) should be really difficult, though, especially against armored characters.

Any damage short of outright destruction or severing should be curable with the Cure spells. Fractured bones, for instance, would mend in proportion to healing received, and the penalties they impose would decrease accordingly.

Damaging limbs should not require a special action: Body segment damage should occur whenever damage is dealt (you're striking the opponent, not his health bar). Even nonlethal or environmental damage should inflict body segment damage. So a policeman beating a protester with his truncheon would inflict nonlethal damage, but might break the protester's bones anyway.

Sure!

The best way to do that though has always bugged me.

One way I've tried is if you're attempting to do something like cut off an eye stock, you make your call and if you critically hit, the attack does no damage but you do what you called.