D&D 5E Healing Surges, Hit Dice, Martial Healing, and Overnight recovery: Which ones do you like?

Ashkelon · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
Correct.

Actually, I play 1E.

Correct.

Because any published module will assume the party is at full health, ergo all encounters will be balanced for a party with access to all spells and at full hit points. Any party NOT using fast healing and at will magic will be at a distinct disadvantage. Pre 4e, and especially pre 3e (wands of clw) no such assumption was made.

Remember that whole section I talked about having the GM know the consequences for lowering the natural healing rate, well there you go. You just showed why it works!

If you force your party to have slower natural healing, they will be at a disadvantage. Now as the GM, you can either let your party go through the module slower and ahve the party take more rests, or you can add extra healing potions to the loot. It really isn't that hard to accomodate your playstyle with the fast healing as the default option.

JRRNeiklot · Apr 17, 2014

And then you're just forcing faster healing on everyone. What does it matter where it comes from? Potions, healing surges, who cares? Healing should be a lot rarer than that. You're not accommodating a playstyle, you're mandating one.

DEFCON 1 · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
I never said there wasn't healing spells available. My current group has one cleric, but he rarely prepares cure spells. He prefers offensive or defensive spells like command or bless. And in fact, only has access to cure light wounds until 7th level in any case.

Incorrect. Resting is only done when necessary. When spells are exhausted, the magic user picks up a weapon or throws oil and holy water. When down on hit points, they suck it up and move on. Only when someone is very badly wounded do they fall back and rest. That's an entire playstyle invalidated by everyone regenerating like trolls.

You're not answering my question.

You said that modules can't use the "fast healing" concept as the default, because your playstyle would be at a disadvantage. But you haven't answered what that disadvantage is.

If you only rest when necessary... it doesn't matter what the default is. Because the only thing that changes when you only rest when badly wounded is the number of potential fights you get into to reach that badly wounded state. But since you're at your own table and not "competing" against another table... it doesn't matter what that number of potential fights is. Thus it doesn't matter what the math is in the module that presents those potential fights, or what the "default" party is meant to do.

DEFCON 1 · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
And then you're just forcing faster healing on everyone.

Not at all. There's no "forcing" anything. UNLESS you consider it more of an ego thing that you and your players can't get as far through a module as you used to on a "single tank of gas" as it were. But that's your issue, not the game's. No one is "forcing" you to change your healing to "fast" just to maintain this mythical adventuring speed that you've done in the past.

If the math of the module says that your playstyle will require more rests... then you take more rests or take more risks. That's completely up to you.

Neonchameleon · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
And then you're just forcing faster healing on everyone. What does it matter where it comes from? Potions, healing surges, who cares? Healing should be a lot rarer than that. You're not accommodating a playstyle, you're mandating one.

On the contrary. With a healing surge game the playstyle you are mandating is one in which characters push on while hurt. It's one in which you can and should keep going even when hurt. It is exactly the play style you are talking about.

If you are down hit points you are hurt. If you are down healing surges you are hurt. Healing Surges are part of your characters' overall endurance in exactly the same way hit points are. But with one minute combat rounds as opposed to six seconds worth of combat round you don't need to bother separating the characters' endurance into immediate and overall because you are zoomed too far out for short breathers.

Hussar · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
And then you're just forcing faster healing on everyone. What does it matter where it comes from? Potions, healing surges, who cares? Healing should be a lot rarer than that. You're not accommodating a playstyle, you're mandating one.

But, you're missing the point.

A baseline has to be established. Either fast or slow, doesn't really matter. You need that baseline so you can give advice on how to create adventures. Whatever the baseline is, that's what you design to.

But, if the baseline is transparent, you can change the speed to adapt to a specific table. You want slow healing because it jives with how you play the game. Fair enough. I certainly never played AD&D that way, but, it's not a problem. What's wrong with having a transparent baseline that you can deviate from?

Unless you are insisting that your baseline be the only one that the game supports and everyone else can go hang.

That was one of the places where 4e really, really shined. You can alter 4e's baseline incredibly easily and it doesn't take a lot of work. You want 1e paced healing in 4e? Easy peasy, you gain 1 healing surge after an extended rest and no HP. Done. Works fine and there's a lengthy bit on the WOTC site about a Dark Sun campaign run by the dev's that did exactly that. Want to go even faster than 4e's baseline? Again, not a problem. Healing surges recharge after a short rest.

Will not change the balance of the game in the slightest. Because that's what having transparent and balanced mechanics means.

Balesir · Apr 17, 2014

JRRNeiklot said:
Because any published module will assume the party is at full health, ergo all encounters will be balanced for a party with access to all spells and at full hit points. Any party NOT using fast healing and at will magic will be at a distinct disadvantage. Pre 4e, and especially pre 3e (wands of clw) no such assumption was made.

Prior to 3e, encounters outside the dungeon weren't balanced anyway - they were totally random. Even inside the dungeon they only went by a loosely assigned "encounter level". If something was too tough for the PCs they were expected to run or die (hence the old saw, "I don't have to outrun the dragon - I just have to outrun you!" )

I don't see how the same remedies (run or die) shouldn't work just as well in DDN as they did in AD&D. Even with 3e and 4e "assumption of full party hit points" you get encounters of different difficulty/strength. It's really no different except in eschewing random tables (which you can always add back, with a bit of work).

Minigiant · Apr 17, 2014

Personally I think D&D should go somewhere in between 0e-2e superheroes who don't heal fast and rely on luck and 3e-4e equals to the monsters with fast healing.

Something like 50% HP and 50% HD with modules to up of down.

Emerikol · Apr 17, 2014

The only hope in my opinion is providing modules that enable the game to be played either way. It's pretty obvious to me that plenty of people dislike 4e style healing. Plenty like it too. So it's a very divisive issue. Instead of a middle road that annoys everyone somewhat why not just provide modules.

Personally, if all I get is the current healing rules, I'm not buying 5e.

tsadkiel · Apr 17, 2014

Emerikol said:
Personally, if all I get is the current healing rules, I'm not buying 5e.

There will be healing modules. Mearls tweeted a month or so ago that they'd be in the DMG. More than that, we know the rules are already written because we've seen them.

D&D 5E Healing Surges, Hit Dice, Martial Healing, and Overnight recovery: Which ones do you like?

Healing Surges, Hit Dice, Martial Healing, Overnight recovery: Do you like these types of healing?

Healing Surges.

Yes.

No.

Hit Dice.

Yes.

No.

Martial Healing the same as magical healing.

Yes.

No.

Non-magical overnight full recovery.

Yes.

No.

Not bothered either way.

Ashkelon

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JRRNeiklot

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DEFCON 1

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Neonchameleon

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Hussar

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Balesir

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Minigiant

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Emerikol

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tsadkiel

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