so much for those toe shoes adverts

trappedslider · May 13, 2014

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/10/_n_5302213.html

Interesting, I don't expect the company to go under but I'm guessing their ad department is gonna get an over haul.

Hand of Evil · May 13, 2014

What it explains is all the big foot footprints being found everywhere (70 million!)

Ahnehnois · May 13, 2014

The company's primary business was, and remains, making soles for other types of shoes. And frankly, the amount of this settlement is probably not huge on their scale.

I picked up on this development because I was actually right at the heart of this whole business. I worked at a running store right when the Vibrams took off, and I received many eager customers. As a business, we sort of had to go with the flow, but we never pushed people towards them, and I always had certain words of caution for people who bought them from me.

They're good for what they are (gloves for your feet for certain athletic applications where grip matters), but I'm pretty skeptical about distance running in them. Sure, people ran barefoot for most of our existence, but we were doing it regularly and we weren't doing it on pavement. And by and large, we don't know the prevalence of foot and leg injuries of barefoot runners throughout history. There's every reason to believe that the famous central American tribe of barefoot distance runners is the exception, rather than the rule. And, as the decision finally rendered notes, there was never much in the way of scientific evidence that would support the whole barefoot running shift.

Their marketing was an overreach. The idea of lighter shoes that they inspired the market to take isn't necessarily all bad, and their fivefingers aren't necessarily bad either, but they're not what some people claim them to be.

bone_naga · May 14, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
They're good for what they are (gloves for your feet for certain athletic applications where grip matters), but I'm pretty skeptical about distance running in them.

I was skeptical until I tried running in them. I have had bad knees for many years now. Without these I'd be a lot worse off. They may not be for everyone but they definitely work for some of us.

Ahnehnois · May 14, 2014

bone_naga said:
I was skeptical until I tried running in them. I have had bad knees for many years now. Without these I'd be a lot worse off. They may not be for everyone but they definitely work for some of us.

That's probably true. The biomechanics of running are surprisingly complicated. The whole idea of barefoot pushing one towards a lighter and more natural stride is not necessarily implausible. To me, the jury's still out on the science of it.

I had many satisfied customers and while some of them may have been misled, I don't doubt that for at least some people, the barefoot shoes are an improvement over the status quo in footwear, and I did hear a lot of things about technique from various professionals in the running community (coaches, trainers, and health professionals) that support the whole barefoot running notion. I do, however, think that the company's marketing is not adequately supported by science and could be misleading, and I agree with the settlement.

It isn't as bad as the whole shape-ups thing.

theT0rmented · May 14, 2014

I've used Vibrams for 2 years now, for training. I have flat feet, and any training (P90X, Insanity, etc) with cardio was really hard on my feet and calves. After a few weeks with Vibrams, that went away. It took some time to get used to them, and change the way I jump/land, but it's much, much better with the Vibrams. So for me, they work and I'll keep using them, but I understand not everyone may have the same experience as I do (those with regular arches).

Ahnehnois · May 14, 2014

An odd part of the running business is that the majority of running footwear is purchased for uses other than running. In the case of the Vibrams, I would guess that their utility in other athletic activities is very high.

bone_naga · May 14, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
An odd part of the running business is that the majority of running footwear is purchased for uses other than running. In the case of the Vibrams, I would guess that their utility in other athletic activities is very high.

Probably. I use mine for lifting, climbing, and occasionally as water shoes. In fact, I use them for the first two more often than I actually run in them.

Ahnehnois · May 14, 2014

bone_naga said:
Probably. I use mine for lifting, climbing, and occasionally as water shoes. In fact, I use them for the first two more often than I actually run in them.

Somewhat oddly, I was seeing a personal trainer as part of a rehab plan and was told to wear shoes for all my strengthening and aerobic exercises, even indoors. I thought this was rather odd, and I did not adhere to it. Maybe they'd have recommended differently for a healthy person, but I always felt like barefoot is the ideal and we should be hewing to it when possible.

The part where I get skeptical is the part about whether your body can handle the pounding of running on pavement without a lot of cushioning; that's where I think the legitimate controversy is.

bone_naga · May 15, 2014

Ahnehnois said:
The part where I get skeptical is the part about whether your body can handle the pounding of running on pavement without a lot of cushioning; that's where I think the legitimate controversy is.

In my experience it can, but only if you have good form (good minimalist form). I've run over pavement while carrying weight (not something I recommend though). If you try running with bad form, even for relatively short distances, you can hurt yourself. On a related note, particularly for those newer to minimalist running, it's really easy to start reverting to your old bad heel striking once you start getting fatigued.

I did start wearing shoes with some cushioning for my obstacle runs since they tend to be harder on me than normal runs, plus minimalist shoes don't have much tread, but even then I go for the zero degree heel-to-toe drop so I can keep my form. Honestly I don't see why more shoes don't offer something like that. I don't mind having cushioning at some times but I do want to be able to keep the proper form.