Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Artifact or Magic Item?

RealAlHazred · Jun 6, 2014

I'm a huge fan of the Demonomicon of Iggwilv articles, and thought it'd be cool to include the book itself in an adventure. I could have sworn that the Demonomicon was worked up in an article or adventure somewhere as a magic item or artifact, but I've been unable to locate it. I found a reference someone made to it appearing in The Plane Below: Secrets of the Elemental Chaos, but I can't find it in there either. And, oddly enough, it doesn't show up in the 4E Demonomicon book itself (an oversight, in my opinion).

Can someone tell me I'm not crazy? Alternatively, if I am crazy, has anyone worked it up? I was thinking it'd make a great Tome Implement...

TerraDave · Jun 6, 2014

The Demonomicon appeared as an item in The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, the Gygax 1E adventure. It was one of two "near artifact" items, along with Daoud's Wondrous Lanthorn.

It might be worth getting a copy of the original adventure. I remember the description being pretty evocative. The module also introduces things linked to the book for the first time, like the demon lord Grazz't.

SkidAce · Jun 6, 2014

I wouldn't make it an artifact, but more of a unique item with lots of story and background.

No need for additional wondrous powers etc, just use the info in the original adventure as recommended by [MENTION=22260]TerraDave[/MENTION]

TerraDave · Jun 6, 2014

If you are looking at 4E, then it appears as an item, yes, a tome implement, in the Heroes of the Elemental Chaos.

Though again, the original version is pretty cool...

RealAlHazred · Jun 6, 2014

I was looking for the 4E implementation. I have (and have run back in the day) Lost Caverns, and it was enough of a reward in 1E getting access to those excellent spells. I suppose in 4E terms, you could give access to the powers through retraining, but it seems clunkier than the wizard memorizing a few new spells the following day...

TerraDave said:
If you are looking at 4E, then it appears as an item, yes, a tome implement, in the Heroes of the Elemental Chaos.

Though again, the original version is pretty cool...

That's what I was looking for! Thank you so much! You the man, T!

Balesir · Jun 11, 2014

SkidAce said:
I wouldn't make it an artifact, but more of a unique item with lots of story and background.

Colour me puzzled as heck - why would you not make it an artifact in 4e? The description "unique item with lots of story and background" seems to scream 4e artifact, to me. It can't be made by PCs and has story/background links - thus DM tool not player build resource thus artifact, surely?

SkidAce · Jun 11, 2014

Balesir said:
Colour me puzzled as heck - why would you not make it an artifact in 4e? The description "unique item with lots of story and background" seems to scream 4e artifact, to me. It can't be made by PCs and has story/background links - thus DM tool not player build resource thus artifact, surely?

From one point of view, what you say is correct.

I was thinking "artifact" in terms of ultimate cosmic power, manufactured by the gods, pivotal in the destiny of the cosmos, etc, etc.

My advice was meant to keep it out of that high a level of category. Most of my games don't have anything called a "minor" artifact, hence my suggestion.

Unique item, lore and back ground, mysterious aura/abilities. ARTIFACT? No... Artifact (as you described) maybe...why not?

SkidAce.

Balesir · Jun 11, 2014

SkidAce said:
From one point of view, what you say is correct.

I was thinking "artifact" in terms of ultimate cosmic power, manufactured by the gods, pivotal in the destiny of the cosmos, etc, etc.

My advice was meant to keep it out of that high a level of category. Most of my games don't have anything called a "minor" artifact, hence my suggestion.

Unique item, lore and back ground, mysterious aura/abilities. ARTIFACT? No... Artifact (as you described) maybe...why not?

Well, the "Why?" is because that is explicitly what artifacts are in 4E. One of the neat little modifications made in 4E, to my mind, was the removal of the naff definition of artifacts as "level 10 spells, but for magic items". 4E has a simple, functional and most importantly useful definition of an artifact as an item tied into the game world, the background and the game situation rather than a player resource for character expansion (possibly earned through adventure).

This makes so much more sense than the "same as magic items, but uber" non-definition that we had earlier that I find myself just facepalming that it's being regressed (and that the regression started with Essentials, in point of fact)...

So, my answer to your second point - there is no such thing as a "minor" artifact. An item with magical or special powers in 4E is either a levelled magic item, designed and intended by the DM as a player group resource, or is a unique and DM-controlled entity that is designed to fulfill some specific role in the game situation being played out, and/or to relate to the game world in a specific way. The latter is an artifact - regardless of its "power level", which is pretty much incidental, in any case (as it's not a character power-up under player control).

Edit: sorry to pick on you - it's not meant as criticism since many seem to have misread 4E the same way, including the designers of Essentials! I'm just bummed at what seemed like a really good idea that has been left to wither on the vine...

Jon Davidson · Apr 3, 2018

Demonimicon - artifact or not?

Wow, now that's a blast from the past! I remember my arch-mage picking up the Demonimicon and a friend's character picking up the Lanthorn in that module. The Lanthorn was more trouble than it was worth; the gem lenses were incredibly expensive to make, and were used up very quickly. The Demonimicon was even more problematic. I seem to remember some vague demon-summoning spells contained in it, but it was also extremely dangerous to use and the demons it summoned/controlled were not even that powerful or useful. I never really got to use it before college ended, as the DMs didn't want to bother with it for some reason. My mage was a good guy, & so wouldn't have used it to attack anyone with. The only situation I can think of where it would come in handy is if a Demon Lord sent his minions after a party or character, and you wanted to protect them by using the book. I think its main problem was that it wasn't fleshed-out enough at the time, but now I can see there appears to be an entire supplement titled after it! Interesting how things grow and change over time. The Codex of the Infinite Planes was very powerful and very specific about its abilities, but much more dangerous to use; it would eventually eat you.

Garthanos · Apr 3, 2018

Liane the Wayfarer said:
I was looking for the 4E implementation. I have (and have run back in the day) Lost Caverns, and it was enough of a reward in 1E getting access to those excellent spells. I suppose in 4E terms, you could give access to the powers through retraining, but it seems clunkier than the wizard memorizing a few new spells the following day...That's what I was looking for! Thank you so much! You the man, T!

A source for some cool rituals?