DMing philosophy, from Lewis Pulsipher

Nagol

Unimportant
Sure, and I respect that, but you are human, and ultimately it is an illusion of neutrality, and at a very significant cost, that being the much stronger potential of a boring game (as the article does acknowledge, to it's credit!). It also requires a certain mindset/approach from the players. Plus you have the big issue of what happens if the players go totally off what you've prepared - you can either start making stuff up, which is basically identical to "normal" D&D DMing, or you can stop the game and prepare for X time. Which means this works best in dungeon-ish scenarios, where variables are limited.

It's kind of like the "reality TV" approach to D&D, as it were.

It is an illusion that covers almost all aspects of civilised life.

That said, it is also the reason I use agreed-upon rules sets, established precedent of past rulings, and roll dice in the open. The results are neutral in the sense that they are not my whims but rather predictable and understandable results of the constraints in play. My consequence determination also strives for consistency and is rules-driven even if some of the inputs are hidden from the players.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
For the play agenda Pulsipher is advocating for, it is imperative that ...

Yes. I don't think most of us have an issue with that portion of it - *given* the agenda, the rest follows.

I think the real issue comes in how he seems to imply that's the only agenda, even *after* noting that said agenda isn't what most players seem to be pursuing. That's weird.
 

the Jester

Legend
Yes. I don't think most of us have an issue with that portion of it - *given* the agenda, the rest follows.

I think the real issue comes in how he seems to imply that's the only agenda, even *after* noting that said agenda isn't what most players seem to be pursuing. That's weird.

To be fair, many many people think their way to play is *the* way to play.

Though I take issue with this, his advice is fairly good for those who prefer the most extreme sandbox end of the playstyle spectrum.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
The only thing I don't like about Pulsipher's comments are his stance that other ways of playing the game are inappropriate or not enjoyable.
To be fair to him, maybe other ways just hadn't been explored that much yet. Clearly the hobby has changed since then.

Extrapolation should be influenced by knowledge of the scenario. What do faction know and want, for example. What I don't want to do is make qualitative assessment of the players success and adjust the scenario on the fly either through adding or deleting elements of the situation or by adjusting original difficulty. "This has been a cakewalk; I better double the number of opponents!" "The PCs are too lucky; the BBEG shouldn't have failed his save in the first round I wanted him to get away!" "The PCs are really struggling; I think they'll find a new ally in the next room".
That's very difficult to do though if the players do anything that is at all unexpected.

For example, say a PC decides to try and rob a house. You were planning on an adventure elsewhere and didn't have any townspeople statted or know much about them or their protections or law enforcement. You might make one of several decisions; you might roll something to be noticed, you might let them waltz through, you might throw them a curve by having a significant NPC show up in some way. The point is, in an open-ended situation for which you aren't prepared, there's no unbiased way of going about resolving it. Any choice you might make is influenced by your knowledge of the players' actions.

Now, what I think varies will be the amount of improvisation a DM has to do. Like I pointed out earlier, if you have rigorous plans and the players stay within them, this conflict does not arise. I just think it's really difficult to consistently meet both of those criteria.

I have run different groups through the same scenarios in D&D and enjoyed the different play experiences and watching the different consequences unfold.
That's what I can acknowledge is possible to do, but is really unfathomable to me. Each game is a one-time thing; trying to run the same scenario again might cause my brain to explode.

And DM interference adds noise to the signal. If the DM interferes to adjust an outcome the players cannot use the result obtained as a fair data point. If the players do not know about the interference and do use the result as a data point, the model they develop will diverge from the game. In other words, they will assume similar interference as part of their model.
The model includes that interference though; it's called circumstance bonuses. (At least, some versions include that). And there's a real question of what you want the players to know.

If, for example, their attack bonus is +2 and the enemy's AC is 13, should it be knowable to the player that they have a 50% chance of succeeding at an attack? If they roll the AC exactly and then one point below it, they will conclusively know that. Conversely, if you occasionally throw in a circumstance modifier, they won't be able to reach that level of knowledge. I don't myself do this, but I could see it being done.

The problem is that if player knowledge exceeds character knowledge, you're metagaming. So if you're trying to avoid that, some degree of tomfoolery behind the scenes may be necessary to obfuscate the omniscient player's knowledge level down a bit in some cases.

You play out the chase to determine what resources are expended, if any and how much time was gained by the opponents, and if the PCs manage to discover the ruse and thus gain more knowledge of the opponent's abilities. In other words, you do it to determine consequence and situation extrapolation. So long as the figment was adjudicated correctly, of course. Most such devices don't have the capacity to travel far, act independently, or to respond to new environments.
I don't have any idea where it was or not; but there's a question in my mind here again about intent. If the NPC had some good reason for behaving this way, it's one thing. If the DM is metagaming this to get the outcome he wants (us finding an illusion), then it feels rather contrived.

I am willing to assume the author was trying to address DMs working at the table level as opposed to working with in-game motivations.
That may be; it's not clear what he meant.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I never knew of the author but his playstyle is exactly mine. And yes I do create a massive amount of content up front for my players. I don't do the entire world down to the individual man of course. I do do a region of the world where the primary campaign is running to a great level of detail. I know if the bartenders wife is having an affair with the baker.

I only recently though completely eschewed screwing with the dice. I have found that it is cheating the payoff of my playstyle to fudge the dice so now I don't. I'm not saying that is true for other playstyles. A playstyle is all about the payoff.

I will also add that I've gotten good enough at this approach that the game stays pretty interesting. My players are active and I create an interesting world but I don't have entire sessions that are boring. I might have one room on occasion.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
For example, say a PC decides to try and rob a house. You were planning on an adventure elsewhere and didn't have any townspeople statted or know much about them or their protections or law enforcement. You might make one of several decisions; you might roll something to be noticed, you might let them waltz through, you might throw them a curve by having a significant NPC show up in some way. The point is, in an open-ended situation for which you aren't prepared, there's no unbiased way of going about resolving it. Any choice you might make is influenced by your knowledge of the players' actions.
I do have the townspeople stat'd. I also have wandering encounter charts that determine who might come by at any given time.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
I do have the townspeople stat'd. I also have wandering encounter charts that determine who might come by at any given time.
Good for you. However, the question remains in generic form, what happens if they go somewhere or try to do something that you haven't anticipated. Anticipating things is good, but not always feasible.
 

Nagol

Unimportant
To be fair to him, maybe other ways just hadn't been explored that much yet. Clearly the hobby has changed since then.

That's very difficult to do though if the players do anything that is at all unexpected.

For example, say a PC decides to try and rob a house. You were planning on an adventure elsewhere and didn't have any townspeople statted or know much about them or their protections or law enforcement. You might make one of several decisions; you might roll something to be noticed, you might let them waltz through, you might throw them a curve by having a significant NPC show up in some way. The point is, in an open-ended situation for which you aren't prepared, there's no unbiased way of going about resolving it. Any choice you might make is influenced by your knowledge of the players' actions.

Now, what I think varies will be the amount of improvisation a DM has to do. Like I pointed out earlier, if you have rigorous plans and the players stay within them, this conflict does not arise. I just think it's really difficult to consistently meet both of those criteria.

<snip>

In my experience, players rarely do what I expect them to do and the chances of them acting consistently is inversely proportional to the value consistency would provide them.

There are a couple of ways of resolving that and minimising DM bias.

The first way is of course be prepared. You don't necessarily need to know every potential detail of every location, but having a good grounding in the town demographics and security arrangements can give you a strong starting position to extrapolate should the players decide to go in an unexpected direction in the town whether that is an impulsive crime or off-the-wall information-gathering tactic or whatever.

Second, consult the dice. If there is a range available in what the PCs may encounter, announce it and then roll to determine where in the range the current situation falls. If the roll determines a persistent fact in the universe, make a note in case it comes up again. If the roll is to determine a current situation, make a note of the probabilities used in case the situation comes up again. I'm also a big fan of announcing/recording the probabilities prior to rolling the dice to avoid the whole "I rolled a 10 that means what I want it to mean" syndrome.

I hear a voice cry in my brain: "Aha, but your probability range will be based on your biases!" Yes to a point. It will be based on whatever notes exist for the situation at hand (Hmm the area the PCs are in is the middle-upper-class section of the town. The average wealth is 800 gp / household, this area has about double that say 1000 + 100 x1d10 gp, What's the chance of the house belonging to a special NPC who hasn't had living arrangement detailed? M / N where M is the number of special NPCs likely to lodge in this area of town and N is the number of households of this type) and whatever precedent has been set in the past (a month ago the PCs found the town patrol does sweeps up the street every 20 minutes). Anything completely not covered (what are the chances people are home at 2130 on a normal Saturday night? Umm 45%! How much of the household wealth is easily portable? 2d10%) needs to be made up on the spot -- but it informs the rest of the campaign.
 


Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top