Beast Musings.

Ok, I was about to embark on the latest of my conversions a Dire Hawk, and
in doing so had a look at the MM to work out what type of creature it should
be. My initial thought was that it is a Beast.

However, all the dire animals are animals, furthermore the SRD has this to
say on the subject of Beasts:

Beast: A beast is a nonhistorical, vertebrate creature with a reasonably
normal anatomy and no magical or unusual abilities. Unless noted otherwise,
beasts have low-light vision and darkvision with a range of 60 feet.

Looking at the list of MM creatures, I have several issues with this.

Ankheg and Bullete I can see how these would be Beasts.

Dinosaurs are most certainly historical and therefore should be animals,
however I think they have been designated Beasts to prevent a 9th Level
Druid having a T-Rex companion

Girallon I can see how these would be Beasts but the prescence of 6 limbs
seems to violate the reasonably normal anatomy part of the Beast type - but
no big problem here

Grey Render: These have six eyes, but again the lack of any true magical
powers (other than just existing) seems to make a case for these being
Beasts.

Griffon, Hippogriff, Hydra, owlbear, roc, sea lion: How can any of these be
beasts. They all seem to be most definately Magical Beasts to me...

Purple worm and Stirge: These seem more likely to be Vermin to me

Anyway enough of my musings...

Dinosaurs are prehistoric, not historic.

Of the rest none have any magical abilities, some are a combo of two creatures, others are just bigger, odder versions of animals. All lack the magical abilities that make certain beasts, magical beasts.

Dave Blewer said:

Griffon, Hippogriff, Hydra, owlbear, roc, sea lion: How can any of these be beasts. They all seem to be most definately Magical Beasts to me...

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None of those monsters have any special powers that could not exist in the real world. Therefore they are not magical beasts.

Purple worm and Stirge: These seem more likely to be Vermin to me

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A stirge is a bird, and therefore a vertebrate. Vermin are invertebrate creatures.

You're probably right about the worm, though.

Re: Re: Beast Musings.

AuraSeer said:

None of those monsters have any special powers that could not exist in the real world. Therefore they are not magical beasts.

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Next time I see a huge flying beast I will definetly think they are magical, or good digital effects.

Hippogriffs and Griffons should be magical because their ability to fly goes beyond normal bounds.

The Roc's wingspan/size ratio makes sense, so beast. The owlbear, beast.

Now I don't agree with the hydra. Anything that can grow its heads back within 6 rounds is definetly magical to me. Or good digital effects (see above).

Of course have you ever thought how some things (spells, abilities, supernatural abilities) would just look corny no matter how well the digital effects were? Polymorph at will. I could not imagine a elf turning into a dragon and back without loking really bad. Imagine the camera having to swoop back real quick and then in real quick just to capture the change. And that is all within 12 seconds. Oh and then there is the hydras head thing. 10 ft long neck gets severed near the base. Suddenly 4-5 seconds later another head pops out. Try doing that without abandoning reason.

Sorry about the hijak. Good points though.

Re: Re: Re: Beast Musings.

Dreaddisease said:

Hippogriffs and Griffons should be magical because their ability to fly goes beyond normal bounds.

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Going strickly by the laws of physics, bumblebees should be incapable of flight.

Same could be said of griffons and hippogriffs, if taken into the same context.

Weight has a lot to do with it. Bumble bees are very light. Because of their weight in comparison to the air surrounding them they are able to maintain flight speeds. Combined with the constant beating of their wings this creature flies fine. Now if you were to make a small bumble bee (the size of a rodent) it would not be able to fly.

With the Hippogriff the weight is roughly the same as a horse (plus all the internal organ) making this a much more dense creature. Its almost like trying to get a jet filled with gold to get off the ground. Added to that is the fact that a hippogriffs structural system (shaped like a horse with wings) making the placement of the wings unsubstantial to create good lift. In other words everytime it flapped its wings its front part of its body would careen towards the ground.

Griffon = similar effects

I agree on the point of Hydra's they should be a magical beast, though some creatures do grows heads, limbs and what not back those are normally simply animals and not complex things like hydras.

As far as the giralion - six arms big deal.

Stirges - I play them like dire mosquitos and have changed them to vermine type to represent this.

Dinosaurs - I have always thought should be reptilians or given their own uinque category.

The purple worm is a vertibrate, it would have to be to support its mass. It is actually more like a snake then a true worm.

Drawmack said:

I agree on the point of Hydra's they should be a magical beast, though some creatures do grows heads, limbs and what not back those are normally simply animals and not complex things like hydras.

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Some lizards can grow back lost limbs without trouble, especially the tail. It's not inconceivable that a hydra's severed head (without a brain essential to survival) could be regrown in a month, even without magic.

The Lernean hydra, which regrows heads almost instantly, is a magical beast.

Dreaddisease said:

With the Hippogriff the weight is roughly the same as a horse (plus all the internal organ) making this a much more dense creature.[...]

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Is the weight of the creature actually listed? Maybe it has hollow bones, like a bird. Perhaps a large portion of its body is filled with a lighter-than-air gas, like the bouyancy bladder of a fish. Applying real-world physics to a fantasy world is extremely tricky, and usually pointless.

The monster does not have supernaturally fast speed. It has no elemental subtype, and no magical attacks or defenses. For game purposes, it's a beast.

Look, this is all quite beside the point. Winged flight is simply not a magical ability in D&D. Period. A creature does not become a magical beast simply by virtue of having functional wings.