Dungeoneer
First Post
The Late to the 4e Party thread has got me thinking: for tables thinking of giving 4e a try, getting started is intimidating. The first Player's Handbook has a lot of issues that were later corrected and is missing some important classes and races. The skill DC chart was revised twice. The first Monster Manual is completely obsolete. The early adventures were horrible.
Cobbling together an 'optimal' version of 4e requires deep system knowledge. The DDI tools help, but they are on borrowed time. Someone needs to create a 'definitive guide' to 4e.
The reason things are so confusing is that 4e was in many ways a 'living edition'. It got constant updates in the form of online errata. Some of it fixed serious problems in the game. Some of it you could pretty easily live without. Later books superseded earlier books in many ways (example: you really ought to use the Monster Vault rather than the first Monster Manual for your standard monster selection). There are multiple versions of many classes (Should I use a Mage or a Wizard? A (Battlemaster) Fighter, a Slayer or a Knight?). There are racial variants, too. A lot of this stuff genuinely improved the game which was great. But it could easily overwhelm new DMs and players.
4e also offers the players an enormous number of sources for class powers and feats. There were three PHBs; I don't know how many 'Heroes of...' books; two volumes of Martial Power plus Arcane and Divine and Primal Power; settings books; many volumes of Dragon magazine filled with options; the occasional 'power card' that came with a pack of minis; and a lot of other stuff I can't be bothered to remember.
Now we can debate whether 4e ultimately held up its end of the 'everything is core' bargain, but if nothing else that is simply TOO MANY OPTIONS for people new to the game to wade through.
A related issue is that 4e players and DMs have always relied heavily on the DDI tools. The char builder and the compendium gathered the hundreds of options in one place and made sure that where rules applied they were the most up-to-date ones. Well, we all know that DDI is living on borrowed time. In the best case scenario it will live on for a couple of years, but when it is gone it will get a lot harder to build correct characters, especially for 'teh n00bs'.
I think a few brave volunteers need to put their heads together and create a guide that cuts through the cruft and outlines what you REALLY need to play the best version of the game. Here are some things that should be in it:
The guide should focus on telling players and DMs what the bare minimum is that they need to play the game the way it was meant to be played. It should not attempt to be comprehensive.
Is anyone interested in working on this?
Now that I've thrown this out there I have to admit that I cannot be the one to take the lead on this. I just don't have the time these days. I hate to be all, "Here's a great idea that other people should totally do!" but I think something like this would be really valuable to future players and DMs. So I really hope others are interested.
If nothing else, we can brainstorm. I'm curious to hear others' answers to the above bullet points.
* Maybe this will be an area where people disagree, but I think there is a consensus that things like the Binder and the Vampire are crap and there's no point in even looking at them. The original PHB Paladin is also widely considered problematic.
Cobbling together an 'optimal' version of 4e requires deep system knowledge. The DDI tools help, but they are on borrowed time. Someone needs to create a 'definitive guide' to 4e.
The reason things are so confusing is that 4e was in many ways a 'living edition'. It got constant updates in the form of online errata. Some of it fixed serious problems in the game. Some of it you could pretty easily live without. Later books superseded earlier books in many ways (example: you really ought to use the Monster Vault rather than the first Monster Manual for your standard monster selection). There are multiple versions of many classes (Should I use a Mage or a Wizard? A (Battlemaster) Fighter, a Slayer or a Knight?). There are racial variants, too. A lot of this stuff genuinely improved the game which was great. But it could easily overwhelm new DMs and players.
4e also offers the players an enormous number of sources for class powers and feats. There were three PHBs; I don't know how many 'Heroes of...' books; two volumes of Martial Power plus Arcane and Divine and Primal Power; settings books; many volumes of Dragon magazine filled with options; the occasional 'power card' that came with a pack of minis; and a lot of other stuff I can't be bothered to remember.
Now we can debate whether 4e ultimately held up its end of the 'everything is core' bargain, but if nothing else that is simply TOO MANY OPTIONS for people new to the game to wade through.
A related issue is that 4e players and DMs have always relied heavily on the DDI tools. The char builder and the compendium gathered the hundreds of options in one place and made sure that where rules applied they were the most up-to-date ones. Well, we all know that DDI is living on borrowed time. In the best case scenario it will live on for a couple of years, but when it is gone it will get a lot harder to build correct characters, especially for 'teh n00bs'.
I think a few brave volunteers need to put their heads together and create a guide that cuts through the cruft and outlines what you REALLY need to play the best version of the game. Here are some things that should be in it:
- Which books you need?
- Which errata is essential and will really improve your game?
- What is the correct DC skill chart?
- Which classes are the 'good' classes*?
- What sources for feats, powers and magic items should a DM allow?
- Which published adventure modules don't suck?
- Also, which supplements are not required for play but would be nice to have access to? (my ex: Arcane Power)
The guide should focus on telling players and DMs what the bare minimum is that they need to play the game the way it was meant to be played. It should not attempt to be comprehensive.
Is anyone interested in working on this?
Now that I've thrown this out there I have to admit that I cannot be the one to take the lead on this. I just don't have the time these days. I hate to be all, "Here's a great idea that other people should totally do!" but I think something like this would be really valuable to future players and DMs. So I really hope others are interested.
If nothing else, we can brainstorm. I'm curious to hear others' answers to the above bullet points.
* Maybe this will be an area where people disagree, but I think there is a consensus that things like the Binder and the Vampire are crap and there's no point in even looking at them. The original PHB Paladin is also widely considered problematic.
