D&D 5E Warlock: Best Designed Caster?

The only concern I have about tactical depth provided by the class is with having so few slots available. with only 2 till level 11, it may risk to become two good shots per fight (assuming you got a rest before) and then it's just EB spam. Hope it's not going to be the case. I would have liked one more spell slot overall though.

koga305 said:

I've built quite a few D&D 5E characters over the past few weeks (got to love that fresh, new Player's Handbook) and I've come to the conclusion that the Warlock is the cleanest and most fun of the full casters to build. Why?

Personally I would like to see more casting classes like the Warlock - specific flavor and focus, easy-to-use mechanics (seriously, for a focus on "Simplicity," why are spells so complicated?), and well-designed resource management.

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I would have liked to see warlock casting methodology as an option that could have been applied to any casting class similar to spell/power points option, which I am sure that we will see in the DMG. Hopefully this methodology of casting can be applied to any class in the DMG.

I am not for unique casting mechanics that cannot multiclass easily. A unique spell list would have been enough for me to get the feel of the class.

Fion said:

I see a lot of posts in this thread about 'properly building a Warlock' and that if players don't they are crippling themselves. I haven't delved into making pregens as much as others, so I'll ask, what do you folks consider a properly built low-level warlock in the different Pacts or Lieges?

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The basic "caster-style" warlock isn't complicated. The only real requirements IMO are eldritch blast at level 1 and the Agonizing Blast invocation at level 2, and pump your Charisma. That guarantees you can stay effective in combat. Beyond that, it's up to you.

For a Blade Pact warlock who wants to specialize in melee, it depends on what type of melee you're doing:

• Great Weapon: Pump Strength and find a way to get heavy armor proficiency. The easiest way is a dip in cleric with a domain that grants heavy armor; you can also dip fighter or paladin, or use feats if you really want to stick with warlock.
• Sword and Board: Pump Strength or Dexterity, your choice, and find a way to get shield proficiency. If pumping Strength, you'll also need heavy armor proficiency. I'd recommend a dip in fighter or paladin for this one, but you'll have to make it your first level and then go warlock at level 2. Get the Dueling fighting style. Alternatively, get the Moderately Armored feat.
• Dual Wielding: Pump Dexterity and dip fighter or ranger. It's really hard to do without the dip for this one; your off-hand attack is just about worthless without it.

Andor said:

The complexity of the Warlock lies during build/leveling, but it has almost no moving parts inplay. This is the opposite of the cleric who makes one decision in build, but must pick spells and juggle resources every day.

This does make the Warlock a good "newbie" class, I think, because a more experienced player, or the DM can help with the build/leveling decision making during downtime. A wizard or Cleric who have to shuffle spell lists during game time are more likely to delay the game for the player who needs hand holding.

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Andor said:

Any class that has expendable resources can misuse them, that's the whole point. But a Warlock with no spell slots is still going to have a lot of his effectiveness in his eldritch blast and invocations. And his spell slots are only a siesta away.

Honestly there is no caster class in 5e that any reasonably bright new player cannot handle. Even better, there is no class which is a trap, especially with multi-classing.

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You're not wrong, 5E is a lot more forgiving of "bad builds" than previous editions were. I also think you're overly-optimistic to assume the DM will always have time (or even knowledge) to help a newbie build their warlock well, and that every newbie will always be "bright" (read: tactically-minded and with an intuitive sense of the rules before having used them in play).

As I mentioned upthread, build quality is only part of the warlock's problem; a larger issue is that the warlock's scope is too narrow and his role is non-obvious. That's a dangerous combo for someone's first introduction to roleplaying: "Oh, this character can't do what I thought he'd be able to do..." and, "I'm not sure how to be more effective in battle..." are not going to make a good impression. Wizard and cleric players will have a lot of spells to learn, but they can learn the game one spell at a time, and they can radically change their character concept just by preparing different spells.

Dausuul said:

• Dual Wielding: Pump Dexterity and dip fighter or ranger. It's really hard to do without the dip for this one; your off-hand attack is just about worthless without it.

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I don't see how it is worthless without the fighting style. You will be adding your Charisma modifier with both weapons. The extra Dexterity damage on your hand would be nice, but I am not sure it is exactly better than progressing your levels in Warlock.

variant said:

I don't see how it is worthless without the fighting style. You will be adding your Charisma modifier with both weapons.

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...Starting at level 12. What did you plan to do until then? In most campaigns, you'll spend the large majority of your time in single-digit levels. You may not even get to 12th, and if you do, it'll probably be getting toward the end of the campaign. A build needs to start delivering long before 12th level.

You only get one pact weapon. That means your off-hand weapon isn't a pact weapon and you don't get automatic proficiency with it. The only finesse weapon warlocks are proficient with is the dagger, so your off-hand attack without the fighter dip is doing a whopping 1d4 damage. I mean, I guess it's better than not doing 1d4 damage, but it's pretty feeble. Dip fighter, and you go up to 1d6+3 instantly. If you're a human, you can get Dual Wielder as your bonus feat and go up to 1d8+3. And every time you pump your Dex, you're adding damage.

variant said:

The extra Dexterity damage on your hand would be nice, but I am not sure it is exactly better than progressing your levels in Warlock.

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For a melee bladelock, I don't see much down side. You do have to wait a level for Thirsting Blade (since you can't get it until you have the Pact of the Blade, and you can't get that till warlock 3, and your next invocation after warlock 3 is at warlock 5). After that, though, it's smooth sailing. Put another two levels in fighter along the way, and you can get Lifedrinker on schedule at 12th--plus you get Action Surge and your choice of battlemaster maneuvers or eldritch knight spells.