is it me? FFG Star Wars

Elven said:

[1) Realism is relative to the story or setting, if i want to play Star Wars in a simulationist way, it stays realistic to the setting,
But not to the real world,

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Only to some gamers who take part in internet discussions, and who hold to certain Forgisms, who are in a minority even among gamers. For most folks, "realism" means "like the real world". If you ask most folks if Star Wars is realistic, they will say, "No." By extension, and game that mirrors Star Wars will also not be realistic.

2) It still does not explicitly state "narrative play only"

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With respect, you're reaching at straws. The game tells you in clear, normal human language what it expects and does well.

That would not always fly (its an okay formula for say pulp, (gets boring? NINJAS!!!1)

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Take it up with the people who wrote FATE. They tell you the expectations. If you then see that, and try to use the game for something else that is not a flaw in their system. Don't use a screwdriver to hammer in nails.

See thats why its BS, you can't claim its the fault of the experienced RPGer, then claim you don't use the term "narrative" because "most folks" wouldn't know it,

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A person who isn't familiar with Forgisms - the majority of the people on the planet, and I expect the majority of gamers, will read FATE and still see what the game focuses upon, and what is should be expected to do well. There's no BS about that. A person who is familiar with the Forgisms should still be able to get the idea without the jargon. If they can read English, it is spelled out for them. The specific words "narrative play" are not required to make the point.

Are you telling me your can't make a vulnerable character? (cuz thats not true, is it?)

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I am saying that the game's designers are up front with the fact that the game works best with competent characters. The skill pyramid is designed, specifically, to create characters who are, broadly, good at stuff. The game is designed for the player to, by their own choice, generate significant success beyond even their base skill level. Even a character who has no skill can, though cooperation, generate significant successes in combat if need be.

And are you telling me that the GM has no options to veto/control the game? (yes he does, right?)

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The GM has such rights, but only within certain parameters - the rules specifically call for most control to be thematically appropriate for characters and drama, and will often call for giving a character resources for exerting control.

So i refer you to my original statement, this is something neither the players nor GM can change without it being a different game,
And hence the core problem why this system has trouble in running those genre,

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Yes. And my point is that FATE, of all games, tells you a great deal of what it can, and cannot do. It is like criticizing a fish for not being beef. It never *claimed* to be otherwise, so there's not a lot of grounds for complaint on that basis.

Okay, this is going around in circles, I've already said what I've needed to say on this subject,
I do not feel your counter argument (as in a different way of thinking, not as in an act of aggression) does not invalidate what i have said,
My points stand,

But (again needless to say) you have the right to your opinion,
(As long as those different opinions can be disputed in a constructive civil fashion, without agenda)

Umbran said:

Only to some gamers who take part in internet discussions, and who hold to certain Forgisms, who are in a minority even among gamers. For most folks, "realism" means "like the real world". If you ask most folks if Star Wars is realistic, they will say, "No." By extension, and game that mirrors Star Wars will also not be realistic.

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You are being pedantic in your version of "realism"
Allow me to be equally pedantic in saying "simulationist" does not need to be "realistic"

(realistic in game terms to me means anything that keeps "authenticity" within the setting, even in "the real world" the perception of what is reality is subjective, I hold up a coin, you see tails, i see heads, we could bitch and whine about who's right and wrong all day, when in fact we are both looking at the same coin,)

Star Wars RPGs

I've role-played in various Star Wars games, using everything from the official D6, D20, and FFG versions to GURPS and Savage Worlds. Yes, each rules system makes slightly different assumptions and encourages different styles of play, so YMMV depending on Game Master and player preferences.

That said, I like that D6 Space is free and backward-compatible with the wealth of classic WEG materials, I prefer Saga Edition to other D20 implementations, and I'd seriously consider FATE (Starblazer Adventures/Mindjammer 2e or Core/Accelerated) if I were to start up a Star Wars game now.

I agree that FFG's custom dice can be confusing and that Savage Worlds can be swingy (partly by design as a pulp-oriented game). I myself prefer streamlined, cinematic combat and character influence over story direction, but some folks like more realistic tactics with minis or plots with different levels of complexity.

Whatever system you choose, it should enable you to tell space opera stories like those in Clone Wars with a minimum of fuss and a maximum of fun for your children! May the Force be with you -- always....

Elven said:

That make no sense, their reference would be the movies, now do you think it would be easier to play in first person or third,
(are they putting themselves in to that position, or watching someone else from a distance, i think they may find "narrative" a little too abstract)

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Have you ever asked a child to tell you a story? They have zero problems to talk about themselves in the third person.

And have you ever been asked by a child to tell you a story? In my experience, they will often try to influence the story while you are telling it.
Children are naturally born roleplayers and storytellers.

What children _aren't_ born with, is a tendency to follow rules. That's something you have to teach them, e.g. by introducing them to board games.
And even if they acknowledge the existence of rules, they'll want to make up their own rules, too.


Anyway, I assume you are making too many assumptions

So let's agree to disagree. Because, personally, I feel you couldn't be more wrong.

edemaitre said:

I've role-played in various Star Wars games, using everything from the official D6, D20, and FFG versions to GURPS and Savage Worlds.

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Edemaitre -- I'm gearing up for a Star Wars campaign and I've narrowed it down to WEG d6 and Savage Worlds. Between those two, which would you prefer if running today? Any why? Love to get your advice.

(We've ruled out FFG EotE and Fate; we've tried both and had issued in my particular group. EotE is great to play but I'm color blind and old and FFG's books are very hard to read for both these reason, plus too much crunch on the GM side. Fate we've tried for other games -- couple of my players really need hand-holding with regard to crafting Stunts and it's a little too loose for my group's style).

Wow. Necro of my own thread.

Mos Eisley Playset. Based on Dungeon World/World of Dungeons. Google it. Awesome.

Umbran, the proper word is verisimilitude, not realism. I could care less about realism in games I play, but I very much care about verisimilitude.

Realism: Reference in which something is correlated to its real world counterpart.

Verisimilitude: Plausibility within the internal consistency of a setting.

When it come to games there tends to be two perpendicular elements that go into their design. One is where it scales on the simulation ---- narrative line, the other is where it scales on the mechanics/rules/crunch light ---- heavy line. I personally prefer games that are more simulationist in nature and about medium/light-ish on the mechanics/rules scale. FFG Star Wars is heavily narrative and very crunchy, the opposite ends of my enjoyment factor on both scales. Now I have played it, and the dice really arent that hard to figure out, and this is coming from someone who has played D&D as his main game since 2E (skipping over 4E). I havent disenjoyed the campaigns I have participated in, but it is by no means my preferred Star Wars system.

(With that said I pretty much disagree with everything else Elven said in this entire thread). And Elven, it is a scientific fact that children learn faster and easier than adults, the prime example being that it is vastly simpler to learn additional languages in your youth vs trying the learn them as an adult. Kids would have no problem picking up the FFG dice pool system easily.

JeffB said:

I downloaded a Edge of Empire fast play adventure freebie thing, and the resolution mechanics seem crazy complicated to me. Probably the whackadoo dice make it worse when reading, but IS it a scomplicated as it seems? My first reaction is " I would never get into RPGs, if this was my first experience with a rulebook".


I am burnt out on D&D for the Kids group and looking to try something completely different. The kids like Star Wars. I am a big fan of the old D6 game, but not of the first two D20 versions (never bothered with Saga because of them).

Is it worh printing this thing out and buying some of the dice? I want fast cinematic Star Wars. Not involved tables and complex dice mechanics.

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In a nutshell:

Stars are successes, triangles cancel them.
Rebel wreaths are advantage, imperial hexagons oppose them and are called threat.
the Triumph is a a special star; the despair a special triangle. The star and triangle effects of them can be cancelled, but each is a side effect that cannot be canceled.

If you have more total stars than triangles (including triumph and despair), you succeed at the core action.
If you have more wreaths than hexes, good side effects (even if you failed the core action).
If you have more hexes than wreaths, bad side effects.
If you have a triumph, you get good side effects or you crit.
If you have a despair, you get bad side effects or you fumble.

As long as you're using the real FFG dice, it's pretty intuitive in play. Players having ONE table of standard combat lookups for spending their advantage (wreaths) or their opponent's threat (hexagons) speeds up a lot.

Thanks for the FYI. This is a pretty old thread. I figured out the dice/etc awhile back and never pursued the game. I would enjoy it, but I knew it would not work for the group.