Power sources vice classes for power selection

Rubik_the_Cube · Sep 15, 2014

AbdulAlhazred,

I'm working on implementing the idea when my next DMing opportunity comes around. I guess it's back to paper character sheets since I don't think the online builder will let me do it. I need a new programming project, I suppose I could write an offline builder. Does anyone know of a database of powers someone has already started building? That seems like it'd be the most time consuming (and mind numbing) part of the project and I'd hate to duplicate work if someone has already started a similar project.

- RtC

AbdulAlhazred · Sep 15, 2014

Rubik_the_Cube said:
AbdulAlhazred,

I'm working on implementing the idea when my next DMing opportunity comes around. I guess it's back to paper character sheets since I don't think the online builder will let me do it. I need a new programming project, I suppose I could write an offline builder. Does anyone know of a database of powers someone has already started building? That seems like it'd be the most time consuming (and mind numbing) part of the project and I'd hate to duplicate work if someone has already started a similar project.

- RtC

There used to be some perl scripts out there that would pull down most of the data from the compendium. Not sure what the status of that stuff is these days. Obviously you need a DDI account (and it was never entirely clear if this was allowed in the TOS or not, endless arguments on that score).

I'd venture a guess that there are people who HAVE such information, in some form or other, but I don't expect it would be cool to share it. At best it is again a big grey area. This is the issue that all 3rd party tools like MasterPlan have had since day one, and WotC did C&D a couple of people for things.

I think to be 100% in the clear you'd have to build your own database. Even then the exact wording of some powers, their names, the power block format, and things like descriptive text could theoretically get you in trouble. Again, this why there is a total dearth of such tools.

Rubik_the_Cube · Sep 15, 2014

Fair enough. I can take the opportunity to prune some redundant feats as well.

- RtC

AbdulAlhazred · Sep 15, 2014

Rubik_the_Cube said:
Fair enough. I can take the opportunity to prune some redundant feats as well.

- RtC

Well, truthfully a LOT of powers are really just kind of filler too. There's always someone that will use them, and depending on the exact mix of powers you want, style of play, and specific build options MOST powers of most classes are things someone will logically choose at some point. OTOH if you start out with certain specific builds and classes then you can also start out with subsets of the power lists. Maybe just start with some of the PHB. If you build your database incrementally as you need it then it isn't so bad. If other people use your builder then they're likely to add what they need too. If you keep the info down to name, class, level, and usage, source, and maybe a couple flags like "has a secondary power" you can avoid any legal entanglements. Obviously this leaves people with the task of making their own cards, or looking up the powers in the appropriate book, but it means WotC will not be able to question what you're doing (since you can't assert a trademark on 'information' as opposed to certain other things). You can still print blank cards of course...

EDIT: and if you ARE going to write something, please for all the love in the world do it in something that is portable between Linux, Windows, and Mac... That pretty much either means Java (JavaFX is fairly nice), or using C++ and the QT toolkit. There are other more obscure options, but you can trust me these two are vastly better than the others.

Tony Vargas · Sep 17, 2014

Rubik_the_Cube said:
I understand that players would take powers from other classes; that is the intent. The question is: what would the effects be?

The two stumbling blocks I can think of are: (1) powers that reference or build on class features. (2) powers that offer role support.

(1) is an issue with system integrity, you'd just have to work out how to handle it. Maybe the power is just very un-appealing because it does so little for other classes, or maybe it evokes some of the feature in question when it's used, for instance.

(2) is a bigger issue. The Twin Strike example illustrates it, Twin Strike increases your DPR by giving you two chances to hit. For a Rogue that could be a big deal, as it helps assure SA damage at every opportunity, building on his own role support. For a Fighter it'd let him mark two enemies - which Dual Strike also does. Where it really goes nuts is with Controllers. A Swordmage could have the toughness of a defender, but choose a bunch of wizard dailies, for instance.

The concept is a good one, IMHO, but it'd re-quire extensively re-designing classes to have role support only in their features, not their powers, and powers to have more generic interaction with features (or different interactions depending on the specific feature).