New verion of Lycanthrope template, and an avatar template

LordVyreth

First Post
I never liked the 3rd ed lycanthrope template, so I tried making a new version a while back, and would like some opinions on it. Also, I created a template for avatars, as they figure heavily in my campaign, so I needed some formal rules on how they work. I'd like input on one or both of them, if anyone is interested. I'm especially interested in what the CR for the avatars would be, and if their individual powers are balanced.

Vyreth

New Lycanthrope Template:
Hit Dice: In humanoid form, the Hit Dice is equivalent to what it be based entirely on creature or class levels. In hybrid/animal form, it is equal to the above total, plus all HD that the animal would normally have. Remember that the Constitution bonus for hit points will increase if the character’s base Constitution is above average.
Speed: As character or hybrid/animal, as appropriate.
AC: As character or animal, with a +2 Natural Armor bonus in all forms. Remember that the humanoid form won’t have any other natural armor bonus associated with the animal, and the animal (and possibly the hybrid as well,) is unlikely to be able to wear armor more complicated than rings or bracers.
Attacks: In humanoid form, as normal. In hybrid/animal form, it has the animal’s attacks, but the humanoid form’s BAB is added to the hybrid/animal’s attack bonus.
Damage: As humanoid or hybrid/animal.
Special Attacks: A lycanthrope has Lycanthropic Empathy in all forms, and Curse of Lycanthropy through their bite. Wererats also have it through other attacks.
Special Qualities: The lycanthrope has Alternate Form, as described in the Monster Manual. It also has Damage Reduction 15/silver in all forms, including humanoid!
Saves: In humanoid form, it has saves as normal, with a +2 to Fortitude and Will Saves. In hybrid/animal form, this number is added to the save bonuses for the animal.
Abilities: In hybrid/animal form, there are bonuses for granted based on the animal. In humanoid form, this bonus is partially transferred, giving them a +2 for every +4 bonus in hybrid/animal form. Numbers less than +2 are not allowed, so a +2 bonus in hybrid/animal form won’t provide any bonus in humanoid form. Obviously, this partial bonus doesn’t stack with the normal full bonus received in hybrid/animal form.
Skills: In humanoid form, this is as normal, with a +4 to Search, Spot, and Listen Checks. In hybrid/animal form, the animal has its normal skill bonuses, with a +8 instead of a +4 for the above stats. The hybrid/animal also has all the humanoid’s skills, but with a –3 penalty to all of them. If this results in a skill with a negative value or no modifier, it isn’t added to the animal’s skills.
Feats: In humanoid form, this is normal. In hybrid/animal form, the character gains all feats that the animal would normally have, plus unique feats based on the lycanthrope type.
CR: as the original creature CR plus the animal CR +1, or +2 if the lycanthrope has a hybrid form.

Avatar Template:
The avatar template can be applied to any intelligent worshipper of a deity. The worshipper must share the same alignment as the deity’s main church. There can only be one avatar per deity. As an avatar, the deity can be channeled into the physical body, giving off the radiance of a divine being. When channeling, the abilities of the avatar change significantly. This template only is used for when the avatar’s mortal personality is present, as the full body of the god can’t manifest often, due to the intricate rules that govern all gods.
Hit Dice: Unchanged from the normal form.
Speed: Unchanged, unless otherwise indicated by the avatar type (see Special Qualities, below.)
AC: An avatar gains a +5 divine AC bonus, which is present even against range-touch attacks and when flat-footed.
Attacks: Natural and iterative attacks are unchanged. All avatars can manifest a variant of the deity’s favored weapon as a move-equivalent action. The weapon has an enhancement bonus and a number of special ability bonuses equal to the worshipper’s level divided by four, rounded up. So, a first-level character has a could have a +1 flaming weapon, a thirteenth-level character could have a +4 weapon of speed, and a 21st or higher-level character has an epic weapon! The character automatically gains the weapon focus and weapon proficiency feats for that weapon, and also gains other feats as his/her level raises, as listed below:
4th: weapon specialization.
8th: improved critical.
21st: epic weapon focus and specialization.
These feats only apply to the manifested weapon, not mortal weapons of the same type.
Special Attacks: As the base creature.
Special Qualities: As the base creature. In addition, the avatar gains damage reduction equal to their level divided by 4, rounded up, which blocks damage equal to the reduced amount times five. So, a tenth-level character has damage reduction 15/+3. The avatar also gains regeneration 5, spell resistance equal to their level/HD +11, and energy resistance 30 to three types of energy, based on the deity. Avatars gain a unique magical ability based on the deity, and another ability every fifth level.
Saves: As base creature:
Abilities: The avatar gains a +8 bonus to the favored ability of the deity, +4 bonuses to two secondary abilities, and a +2 bonus to a tertiary ability. The other two abilities are unchanged.
Skills: As base creature.
Feats: As base creature, except for the weapon feats as listed above.
CR: Your guess is as good as mine.

Diety properties:
Over-God: +8 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Strength, +4 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to Constitution. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, ice, electricity.
1st Level-No longer needs to eat, breathe, sleep, or fulfill any other physical need.
5th - Immunity to death effects.
10th – Teleport w/o error at will (self + 50 pounds only.)
15th – Gains abilities and bonus spells of the Good and Law domains as if a cleric of a level equal to the character.
20th – Controls a number of good outsiders with total HD equal to the character’s level.
God of luck and pleasure: +8 bonus to Dexterity, +4 bonus to Charisma, +4 bonus to Intelligence, +2 bonus to Constitution. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, ice, acid.
1st Level- Gains permanent freedom of movement.
5th – Can re-roll one random die roll/day, and take better of the two results.
10th – Character gains DR 5/-, to reflect their ability to ignore suffering.
15th – Character permanently gains effect of expeditious retreat.
20th – Character is immune to all mind-affecting powers.
God of Science: +8 bonus to Intelligence, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Dexterity, +2 bonus to Charisma. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, sonic, electricity.
1st Level- Character is immune to all illusion spells if the character’s intelligence is at least 10+the spell’s level.
5th – Character can take 10 on all Craft or Knowledge checks that she has ranks in.
10th – Character gains immunity to one type of energy, which can be changed as a standard action.
15th – Character can fly, as per the spell, at will.
20th – Character is able to react to all attacks with incredible foresight, making her immune to critical hits.
God of Magic: +8 bonus to Charisma, +4 bonus to Intelligence, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +2 bonus to Constitution. Qualites: Energy resistance to acid, sonic, ice.
1st Level-Character’s level is considered to be 5 greater than it actually is when someone tries to dispel his spells.
5th – Character has permanent mage armor.
10th – Character ignores all null, wild, and anti-magic effects, including the spell anti-magic field.
15th – Character can add any known metamagic feat to a spell once/day without further penalty (it doesn’t take up a higher spell slot, have to be prepared in advance, or take longer to cast.)
20th – Character penetrates spell resistance as if a caster five levels higher than the actual amount.
LN god of death: +8 bonus to Constitution, +4 bonus to Intelligence, +4 bonus to Strength, +2 bonus to Wisdom. Qualites: Energy resistance to acid, ice, electricity.
1st Level-Character can take 10 when making Knowledge (afterlife) checks.
5th – Character is immune to energy draining and death effects.
10th – Character turns or rebukes undead as if four levels higher than normal (but only if the character has the ability to turn or rebuke undead.)
15th – The area around the character is always considered to be consecrated.
20th – The character can become incorporeal for 1 minute/level (Doesn’t have to all be used at once.)
God of nature: +8 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Constitution, +4 bonus to Dexterity, +2 bonus to Strength. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, acid, electricity.
1st Level- Character’s regeneration is twice as strong, but only when standing on the ground.
5th – Character can use Tree Stride at will
10th – Character is immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorphing.
15th – Character gains woodsense at a range of 120 ft.
20th – Character has shambling mound allies as if from a maximized shambler spell at all times.
Good god of war and strength: +8 bonus to Strength, +4 bonus to Constitution, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +2 bonus to Intellgence. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, sonic, acid.
1st Level- Character gains a +5 divine bonus when using the special avatar weapon.
5th – Character gains permanent protection from arrows spell.
10th – Character is immune to exhaustion, fear, and fatigue from all sources.
15th – Character has permanent stoneskin in effect on body.
20th – Character can never be disarmed, tripped, bull-rushed, or grappled unless the character starts the effect.
Evil god of war: +8 bonus to Strength, +4 bonus to Constitution, +4 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to Dexterity. Qualities: Energy resistance to acid, ice, electricity.
1st Level- Character can levitate at will.
5th – Character inspires a +4 morale bonus to saves, attacks, and damage to all allies in a 60 ft. radius.
10th – Character subjects a –4 morale penalty to saves, attacks, and damage to all enemies in a 60 ft. radius unless they make a will save (DC 10+1/2 character’s level + character’s Wisdom bonus.)
15th – Character is immune to all death and mind-controlling effects.
20th – Character requires a wish to stay dead.
God of music: +8 bonus to Charisma, +4 bonus to Dexterity, +4 bonus to Intelligence, +2 bonus to Strength. Qualites: Energy resistance to sonic, ice, fire.
1st Level-Character is immune to all silence effects.
5th – Character gains permanent tongues effect.
10th – Character can take 10 on all charisma-based skill checks.
15th – Character can teleport without error at will.
20th – Character automatically deflects all sonic damage taken back at the target.
God of art and literature: +8 bonus to Intelligence, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Constituation, +2 bonus to Charisma. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, acid, electricity.
1st Level-Character can take 10 on all appraise, craft, disable device, and profession checks.
5th – Character can never be blinded or deafened.
10th – Character has permanent true seeing and see invisibility effects.
15th – Character can plane shift at will.
20th – Character’s awareness is so great that he always wins initiative, and never loses his dex-bonus when flat-footed, attacked by invisible opponents, or flanked.
God of love: +8 bonus to Charisma, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Strength, +2 bonus to Constitution. Qualites: Energy resistance to sonic, ice, acid.
1st Level- Character gains +15 to all diplomacy checks made against the opposite sex, and +5 against those of the same sex or gender-less beings.
5th – Character is immune to charms and dominate effects.
10th – Any hostile creature who comes within 15 feet of the target must make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ character’s level + character’s charisma bonus) or become charmed.
15th – Character can dimension door at will.
20th – Character gains full benefit of the leadership feat, even if she already has it.
God of innocence and children: +8 bonus to Dexterity, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Charisma, +2 bonus to Constitution. Qualites: Energy resistance to fire, acid, electricity.
1st Level-All creatures must make a Will Save (DC 25 + character’s level + character’s Charisma modifier) to attack character; failure means they will instantly choose not to attack.
5th – Character can use Jump and Spider Climb at will.
10th – Character can use haste on self at will.
15th – Character has permanent magic circle against evil around him.
20th – Character can use improved invisibility on self at will.
evil god of death: +8 bonus to Intelligence, +4 bonus to Wisdom, +4 bonus to Strength, +2 bonus to Dexterity. Qualites: Energy resistance to sonic, ice, electricity.
1st Level-Character is immune to all death-effects.
5th – Character radiates effects of desecrate spell in twenty foot radius around her at all times.
10th – Character can use animate dead, create undead, and create greater undead at will.
15th – Character can fly and water walk at will.
20th – Character radiates field of night around her at a 50 ft. radius at all times. This field blocks the harmful effects of sunlight, making her undead servants safer.
 

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Krishnath

First Post
Hmm... No offense, but I prefer the WotC version of the lycanthrope template, might be because I've made no less than seven new types of lycanthropes with it... (Werespiders and Wereravens are my favourite two.)

As for the avatar template, I find it interresting. One thing I wonder about though is wheter or not you have Deities and Demigods? This is because in that book, an avatar is a part of the deity and not a mortal granted (semi-)divine power. But the concept is never the less very nicely done, and very well executed. But for the CR increase I would say +3 to +6 depending on the power of the deity. But that 'avatar' template is damn nasty. (In a good way, of course... :D)

Later,
 


LordVyreth

First Post
Well, the reason I had problems with the lycanthrope template was that it doesn't seem to stack the humanoid and animal traits. You get either the human or animal HD, not both. You only get one set of attacks, and BAB is fairly ambiguous. It's the same with CR; by the rules in the MM, a 20th level fighter and a 1st level commoner have the same CR, but if you stack the humanoid CR, animal CR, and the +2 of the template, you get a very weak character for CR, because the human and animal abilities only occasionally overlap. The version I made lets the hybrid/animal versions of the creature stack their human and animal traits, and it also enhances the abilities a lycanthrope gets in human form (the lesser ability adjustments, and DR, for example.)

The way they work in my campaign, they're effectively avatars (I don't have Dieties and Demigods, so I had to ad-lib a system.) They could work as chosen instead, if that's what your campaign would suggest.

By the way, you mentioned the CR for the avatars is based on the powers their god grants. Which sets do you think are more powerful, and which less? I'd like to balance it so all avatars have the same CR bump.

Vyreth
 

Krishnath

First Post
Uhm, no... you see the base creature gets whatever hd that is the highest, for example a 1st level human commoner that happend to be a werewolf, has 2HD, whereas a 20th level fighter/werewolf has 20 HD, also the CR on that template is off, it should be as the animal +2 or the base creature +2 whatever is greater. They fixed it in the errata. It's the same with the +2 to Int and Wis that lycanthropes get. Hopefully they will have fixed this problem in the revision that is due out later this year.

As for the avatars I meant the CR boost would be as follows:

+3 for 'avatars' of Demi-deities
+4 for 'avatars' of lesser deities
+5 for 'avatars' of intermediate deities
and
+6 for 'avatars' of greater deities.

Over deities would of course not have these 'avatars'.

Either way, it's just a game, and in your game, you can do whatever you feel is good. :D
 

LordVyreth

First Post
Well, if you like that. Personally, I prefer my method, because even though the CR bump tends to be huge (I have a were dire leopard in my game; its CR is somethng like +6,) when they are transformed, they get really powerful, and even when normal, they get some stuff. I have a few real problems with the standard lycanthrope template.

Levelling doesn't give you enough of a bonus. A first level commoner and a fourth level fighter will give you about the same lycanthrope battle, since the guy's probably still not powerful enough to base his HD off of his human level, and what's the point of fighting a lycanthrope if it's not in animal/hybrid form? Similarly, after a certain level, being a lycanthrope becomes mostly useless. A non-hybrid's paying a fair CR bump for a few ability boosts, a few skill and saving throw boosts, and the ability to transform into an animal.

Again, nothing wrong with the old rules, if you like them. But I tried making a BBEG once, and instead of one really cool villain, I ended up with two average villains.

Well, that's enough griping about lycanthropes. I'm more worried about the god thing, anyway. The problem is, in my campaign, there are no major/demi/etc. gods; just gods. Well, except for the creator god, but you know what I mean. Because they all have the same level of avatar, their avatars should all be equal strength, and that means they should all have balanced powers. That's why I was curious to know what you thought of the lists I posted above. I'm currently guessing CR +4 as a rule for them, but again, I'd like some opinions.

Vyreth
 

Krishnath

First Post
Hey, it's your decision, but try putting a party up against a 20th level necromancer drow werewolf (or werespider...) with the improved control shape feat.
Remember, the lycanthropes mental stats (Int, Wis, and Cha) do not decrease when it transforms... :D

besides, not all lycanthropes are insane killers. some are good people (such as werebears and weretigers) that just happen to transform into animals a couple of days a week. They make some very interresting npc's. Always in a mental struggle between their civilized values and their animal instincts. Think wolverine of the x-men... :D

But as I said, it's your decision. I say go with whatever makes your game good.
 

Xarlen

First Post
I would note that only when they're in hybrid form and are infected are they a certain aligment. A Natural lycanthrope wouldn't be immediately evil.

And, I sort've agree with LordV. A human who's a werewolf should have some characteristics, some effects in human form. Especially if they're a natural lycanthrope, they would be naturally stronger, faster, etc. Sort've like in Wolf, where his strenght and senses improved.
 

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