D&D 5E Bardic Lore: A Basic College of Lore Bard Guide

Zardnaar · Jun 4, 2015

Mistwell knocking them prone is a accurscy boost for the bard doing it (unless we read the feat wrong) . If anyone else gets a hit in its a bonus.

Mistwell · Jun 5, 2015

Zardnaar said:
Mistwell knocking them prone is a accurscy boost for the bard doing it (unless we read the feat wrong) . If anyone else gets a hit in its a bonus.

How? You cannot take the bonus action until you trigger it with an attack action - which means the attack action must come before you've knocked them down.

Zardnaar · Jun 5, 2015

Mistwell said:
How? You cannot take the bonus action until you trigger it with an attack action - which means the attack action must come before you've knocked them down.

Rules FUBAR looks like we have been running it wrong.

FormerlyHemlock · Jun 5, 2015

Zardnaar said:
Rules FUBAR looks like we have been running it wrong.

According to Jeremy Crawford, the way you've been running it is as intended:

http://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/shield/

JasonMcGrody said:
@JeremyECrawford Timing of Shield Master bonus shove. Does "take attack action" mean make 1 or all att rolls 1st? or can shove then attack?

JeremyECrawford said:
@J_McGrody As with most bonus actions, you choose the timing, so the Shield Master shove can come before or after the Attack action.

Mistwell · Jun 5, 2015

emdw45 said:
According to Jeremy Crawford, the way you've been running it is as intended:

http://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/shield/

WOW, OK thank you. Well, that does change things. A strength-bard seems doable, instead of a Dex bard.

Zardnaar · Jun 6, 2015

emdw45 said:
According to Jeremy Crawford, the way you've been running it is as intended:

http://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/shield/

We ran it that way because the rules said you can switch things around like attack, move attack things like that.

Mistwell in a vacumn I tink the shield master is better than great weapon master as you will narrow the damage gap drastically, buff the rest of the parties bonus to hit (depending on initiative order). One of the best valor bard spells is also dissonant whispers the trick with it is to walk up beside an NPC cast dissonant whispers trigger, deal 3d6 damage and trigger an AoO from you and your ally and crush the NPC. If they make a save you are only down a level 1 spell slot. Our best one triggered 3 AoO and the bards one can be a shield bash while the other 2 use things like great weapon master -5/+10 on the poor bastard.

If you start counting the bonus damage others inflict in your head via bardic inspiration dice, AoO triggers and accuracy buffs and things like that from knocking crap prone a bard will likely out damage most PCs they are just not doing the damage directly. One of the more skill based thing with valor bard vs lore bard is figuring out who to hand bardic dice to, use them to buff saves or to hit don't worry to much about using them for damage.

If you really want to cheese it out get a bladelock (ftr 1/bladelock XYZ) as your front line beater, the shield master Bard as your 2nd front liner/backup healer, and a wizard in the party. Cast enhance ability (strength) on yourself, take the shield master feat and expertise in athletics. Have the bladelock target something with hex (which they would do anyway), and bonus action try to knock it prone. Hex can give disadvantage to strength or dex checks if something is in heavy or medium armor pick strength light armor pick dex. You know have advantage on your athletics check to knock them prone, they have disadvantage on the opposed roll.

For even a bigger combo if you party has a wizard (I recommend abjurer or diviner) get them to enlarge you. You can know knock over huge giants and deal +1d4 damage. Bonus points if the bladelock has the great weapon master feat.

Rub · Jun 16, 2015

Multiclassing with a Bard

Hello, I am new to the forum, but have been reading this entry for 4 months to help me create my character for a game we started 2 months ago. I originally wanted to create a Fighter with a splash of Bard, but ended up doing the opposite. I think it works well but I have to agree that there are some other multi-class splashes that probably work better to replace another dedicated class entirely. Here are my thoughts:

Probably the easiest is a 1 level dip into Rogue (after at least 1 Bard level) to gain Sneak Attack, Expertise, Thieves' Cant and proficiency in Thieves' Tools if you don't have it from your background (like Charlatan to gain additional proficiencies in Disguise & Forgery Kits). Assuming you take a Half Elf and spread your skills and Expertise wisely, you have most of most of the bases covered for the Rouge's roll with the bonus of additional spell support, especially healing when things get tough.

Speaking of healing, a 1 level dip into Cleric of Life (again, after at least 1 Bard level) can eliminate the need for a Cleric's healing functionality, plus you get proficiency in Shield and Medium Armor if you go Lore Bard. If you have a Paladin in your party, you have the turning undead and other cleric functions covered which frees you up to also lend help in skill checks and broader selection of spells.

A 2 level dip into Warlock (after Bard 1) to get you Agonizing Blast (and Eldrich Spear, Eldrich Sight or Mask of Many Faces) can replace the need for a Warlock. Take the Human Variant with the Warcasting Feat, and if you wish build up STR instead of DEX and go Valor Bard for proficiency in Shield, Armor & Weapons and you are good both at range and up close giving you much more functionality and again, more spells from which to choose.

I know all those were already discussed, but I just think any of those choices are better for all around usefulness than the single class you are replacing. For my Bard, I wanted to be a Fighter with a 2 level Bard dip to add extra healing to our group. However, the Fighter in the group has the Polearm Master Feat, and kicks ass. Also, our Warlock dropped out, so I decided to instead advance fully in Bard after starting 1st level in Fighter. While it may not be as optimized the earlier suggestions, he is great in all around support with being "the face" of the party, skill proficiencies, additional spellcasting/healing and fighting both at range and melee.

There are a few benefits to starting Fighter 1st which include 2 extra HP, proficiency in Shield, Armor, Weapons & CON saving throws (i.e. Concentration spells), 2nd Wind for a quick Bonus Action HP boost and most importantly, Fighting Style. A real argument can be made for Archery or Dueling, but I chose the Defense Fighting Style for the +1AC that helps both in melee combat and more importantly when using my longbow and without my shield's +2 AC. Because I have a 16 DEX, have studded leather & shield + the Defense Fighting Style, I have a better AC at 18 than the frontline fighter & cleric (at least until they get heavy armor). Plus, with light armor, I can sneak into a room to get surprise. And now that I have chosen College of Lore, that 1 level dip helps with ranged attacks (Longbow vs. Hand Crossbow) and AC that I wouldn't have received if I was a dedicated Bard.

I think of him as a replacement for an Eldrich Knight where I'm sacrificing some of the fighting ability for better spells. Or just in a general sense, if you have a dedicated Cleric & Rogue then a better single-classed College of Lore Bard where you are only sacrificing (if you even reach it) your crappy level 20 capstone achievement. There is more I would like to add on other observations I've witnessed while playing a Bard, but I can discuss them at a later time. Any comments are appreciated.

Zardnaar · Jun 24, 2015

Rub said:
Hello, I am new to the forum, but have been reading this entry for 4 months to help me create my character for a game we started 2 months ago. I originally wanted to create a Fighter with a splash of Bard, but ended up doing the opposite. I think it works well but I have to agree that there are some other multi-class splashes that probably work better to replace another dedicated class entirely. Here are my thoughts:

Probably the easiest is a 1 level dip into Rogue (after at least 1 Bard level) to gain Sneak Attack, Expertise, Thieves' Cant and proficiency in Thieves' Tools if you don't have it from your background (like Charlatan to gain additional proficiencies in Disguise & Forgery Kits). Assuming you take a Half Elf and spread your skills and Expertise wisely, you have most of most of the bases covered for the Rouge's roll with the bonus of additional spell support, especially healing when things get tough.

Speaking of healing, a 1 level dip into Cleric of Life (again, after at least 1 Bard level) can eliminate the need for a Cleric's healing functionality, plus you get proficiency in Shield and Medium Armor if you go Lore Bard. If you have a Paladin in your party, you have the turning undead and other cleric functions covered which frees you up to also lend help in skill checks and broader selection of spells.

A 2 level dip into Warlock (after Bard 1) to get you Agonizing Blast (and Eldrich Spear, Eldrich Sight or Mask of Many Faces) can replace the need for a Warlock. Take the Human Variant with the Warcasting Feat, and if you wish build up STR instead of DEX and go Valor Bard for proficiency in Shield, Armor & Weapons and you are good both at range and up close giving you much more functionality and again, more spells from which to choose.

I know all those were already discussed, but I just think any of those choices are better for all around usefulness than the single class you are replacing. For my Bard, I wanted to be a Fighter with a 2 level Bard dip to add extra healing to our group. However, the Fighter in the group has the Polearm Master Feat, and kicks ass. Also, our Warlock dropped out, so I decided to instead advance fully in Bard after starting 1st level in Fighter. While it may not be as optimized the earlier suggestions, he is great in all around support with being "the face" of the party, skill proficiencies, additional spellcasting/healing and fighting both at range and melee.

There are a few benefits to starting Fighter 1st which include 2 extra HP, proficiency in Shield, Armor, Weapons & CON saving throws (i.e. Concentration spells), 2nd Wind for a quick Bonus Action HP boost and most importantly, Fighting Style. A real argument can be made for Archery or Dueling, but I chose the Defense Fighting Style for the +1AC that helps both in melee combat and more importantly when using my longbow and without my shield's +2 AC. Because I have a 16 DEX, have studded leather & shield + the Defense Fighting Style, I have a better AC at 18 than the frontline fighter & cleric (at least until they get heavy armor). Plus, with light armor, I can sneak into a room to get surprise. And now that I have chosen College of Lore, that 1 level dip helps with ranged attacks (Longbow vs. Hand Crossbow) and AC that I wouldn't have received if I was a dedicated Bard.

I think of him as a replacement for an Eldrich Knight where I'm sacrificing some of the fighting ability for better spells. Or just in a general sense, if you have a dedicated Cleric & Rogue then a better single-classed College of Lore Bard where you are only sacrificing (if you even reach it) your crappy level 20 capstone achievement. There is more I would like to add on other observations I've witnessed while playing a Bard, but I can discuss them at a later time. Any comments are appreciated.

I put the Bardlock and Healer bard builds up in the mutlclass section.

Mistwell · Jul 25, 2015

Still following thread, hoping for updates. Still particularly interested in variations on Level 6 spell choice from other classes, including as it could relate to likely multiclassing. Magic item section might be cool too.