D&D 5E Bardic Lore: A Basic College of Lore Bard Guide

Zardnaar · Nov 12, 2014

sithramir said:
Should add smite spells and hex/hunters mark

All allow you to do extra damage. You can get level 3 paladin versions.

Lore bards still get light armor and that can allow them sent huge damage increases as they aren't as wimpy as a wizard when needed in melee

Hex/hunters mark can last many fights with only one slot

They do not get extra attacks to abuse them though. Bless will likely be the better choice and deal more damage. I can add them in if you like but I think they are inferior.

sithramir · Nov 12, 2014

Re read smite spells and powers. They only work on one attack. Since they are concentration you cannot use 2 of them nor can you smite for both attacks with them. But they are a huge boost in damage with boosts like throwing monsters back 20' or doing searing damage every round after.

A paladin can use his smite class ability for two attacks or use a smite spell in combo with his class ability but he has to use 2 spells which is a lot of investment.

Edit: it occurs you might have meant more attacks to hit before using smite but you rarely miss at higher levels with low ac most monsters have. Smite spells on bard list basically makes them a rogue damage equivalent when used. It is very powerful

Zardnaar · Nov 13, 2014

sithramir said:
Re read smite spells and powers. They only work on one attack. Since they are concentration you cannot use 2 of them nor can you smite for both attacks with them. But they are a huge boost in damage with boosts like throwing monsters back 20' or doing searing damage every round after.

A paladin can use his smite class ability for two attacks or use a smite spell in combo with his class ability but he has to use 2 spells which is a lot of investment.

Edit: it occurs you might have meant more attacks to hit before using smite but you rarely miss at higher levels with low ac most monsters have. Smite spells on bard list basically makes them a rogue damage equivalent when used. It is very powerful

I'm a big fan of smite spells but lore master bards are kind of squishy, have lowish ACs and the Paladin smite spells do not do that much damage. On a valor bard they are a lot better IMHO. Yeah sure you could go into melee and deal an extra 4d6 damage or whatever (once with a daily slot) but you base damage is probably only about 1d6+3 or so anyway with an AC of 15 or 16 maybe..

Or you can drop a fireball or lightning bolt for d6 in an area of effect. I'm not convinced but if you post some ideas I am happy to put them up as I am willing to change a rating or add something if I have missed it our you can convince me.

sithramir · Nov 13, 2014

Well it should just be listed as its pretty powerful. You can add 2d6 or 2d8 damage on attacks just using a first level spell. You can scale it higher and have a lot of spell slots you can use. I agree being valor males sense but being level 6 you are doing as much as a fighter or rogue or more if you want.

1st Lvl slot slightly less but more with a 2nd lvl slot without needing an ally to sneak.

Just a pretty powerful option even if valor since it can use lower lvl slots in a whole new way

Zardnaar · Nov 14, 2014

sithramir said:
Well it should just be listed as its pretty powerful. You can add 2d6 or 2d8 damage on attacks just using a first level spell. You can scale it higher and have a lot of spell slots you can use. I agree being valor males sense but being level 6 you are doing as much as a fighter or rogue or more if you want.

1st Lvl slot slightly less but more with a 2nd lvl slot without needing an ally to sneak.

Just a pretty powerful option even if valor since it can use lower lvl slots in a whole new way

I think that sort of thing is good for classes that can make use of it like Paladins. Lore bards though lack the AC and weapons Paladins can use it for and an extra 2d6 or 2d8 using a 1st level slot seems a bad deal when compared with Faerie Fire let alone bless. THose spells are going to barely do more damage than thunder wave and probably less.

Even as a Valor Bard I avoided the smite spells because you do not get them until level 10. I Took Destructive Wave and Aura of Vitality instead. If I did not take AoV I would have taken haste instead as the Valor Bard. I just think there are better options and dealing a extra handful of damage is not as good as having the rest of your party do a lot more damage with their attacks over more than one round and if they have feats like Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master each PC will deal more damage per hit than your one shot spell effect. At level 10 just compare the smite spells to destructive wave for example.

By level 10 for example you could use a smite type spell or cast swift quiver and abuse it with the sharpshooter feat so 4 attacks per round with +10 damage per attack. That is a way better option than a single smite spell assuming you have someone else in the party to offset the -5 to hit. If you do not you may want to be that someone else.

A high damage focused build like a valor bard who wants to directly deal as much damage as they could might take some smite spells otherwise at best I seem them being used in a multiclass lore bard build (fighter 11/Bard 9 or whatever).

transtemporal · Nov 28, 2014

Nice one Zardnaar, like it a lot!

On the "don't get hit thing", some AC is better than no AC at low levels but burning a feat or taking dwarf only to have AC become functionally useless at high levels is a flawed decision to my mind, unless your dm allows feat swaps. Easier to hang at the back, looking innocuous.

Zardnaar · Nov 28, 2014

transtemporal said:
Nice one Zardnaar, like it a lot!

On the "don't get hit thing", some AC is better than no AC at low levels but burning a feat or taking dwarf only to have AC become functionally useless at high levels is a flawed decision to my mind, unless your dm allows feat swaps. Easier to hang at the back, looking innocuous.

I find things like cutting words, flare, greater invisibility etc are better than AC buffs. AC buffs are nice but you do not know when and where you will get them unless you boost dexterity.

Ashrym · Nov 28, 2014

I think you are over-selling faerie fire and vicious mockery a bit. They're both nice but not must-have spells and I would have gone light blue. I'm not a fan of crown of madness either, but I really like heroism and blindness/deafness. Heroism saves more hp in damage than a cure in the same slot can heal on top of fear immunity. Blindness has the same effect as faerie fire in granting advantage attacking but also includes disadvantage on being attacked, does not require concentration like most spells, can affect a lot more types of targets than tasha's laughter or hold person, and can affect multiple targets by scaling in to higher level slots; it's a fantastic spell.

I agree that smite spells are not such a great choice.

travathian · Nov 28, 2014

FF affects all creatures in an area and shows invisible creatures.

Blindness is single target(unless level boosted), CON save, and save each round to remove effect.

Other than the advantage to attack the target, they are radically different spells and used in radically different ways. That said, I also consider FF a must have spell for at least on member of the party. Being able to outline an invisible creature is just huge. Might as well call the spell DM's bane.

Ashrym · Nov 29, 2014

travathian said:
FF affects all creatures in an area and shows invisible creatures.

Blindness is single target(unless level boosted), CON save, and save each round to remove effect.

Other than the advantage to attack the target, they are radically different spells and used in radically different ways. That said, I also consider FF a must have spell for at least on member of the party. Being able to outline an invisible creature is just huge. Might as well call the spell DM's bane.

Faerie fire isn't selective. It hits allies and enemies alike and relies on concentration. The effects it has are to give attackers advantage (potentially enemy attackers on allies), eliminate stealth / invis, and provide dim light. Outlining the invisible individual is a situational ability because the presence of the individual needs to be detected in the first place, but not a bad option to have. I prefer expertise in perception for that purpose. Don't get me wrong, however; I think faerie fire is a great spell and promote it on various forums. I would have gone with light blue for a great spell over gold for a must have because there are other great options and bards can't prepare spells.

Blindness is a CON save but all that means is between the 2 spells there is a choice in spell to get advantage by hitting weak saves. That's a plus because we want to be able to target different saves. Blindness doesn't require concentration, unlike a lot of spells, and hits more target types, unlike hold person or tasha's. The spell targets opponents and can be cast into an area the party is in without that negative consequece, and can be used on multiple targets over a wider area than faerie fire because there is no stipulation on how close together each target is; the targets only need to be within 30 feet of the caster.

The effects blindness creates duplicate allies attacking with advantage, which is the main combat effect of faerie fire. It has the additional effect of the affected target attacking with disadvantage for a defensive effect. Auto fail on ability checks that require sight is a situational benefit, as is deafness, but can help.